Pedants' Paradise

[mangerton]

Isn't it brother in the sense of monks...? Hence formality among the ranks of the Brethren...

Sonnez les matines? I should have thought so.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Isn't it brother in the sense of monks...? Hence formality among the ranks of the Brethren...

I think it does relate to monks, but were they so formal?

[Lateralthinking1]

Quote from Eine and Jean's comments - On another subject, I get very annoyed when people talk about "slowing UP".
You can speed up, but surely you can only slow DOWN.

My feeling is that "slow up" sounds wrong whereas "slowing up" doesn't. I am not sure why but I think that only "slow down" can be an order. As such, and more importantly in broader terms, it can precede an act of slowing - "Is this going to slow down?".

By contrast, "slowing down" and "slowing up" are about what is happening or what did happen - "it is slowing up/(down)" or "it was slowing up/(down)" or, less neatly, "it slowed up/(down)". I also hear resistance in "slowing up". Slowing up isn't wanted. Slowing down can be.

As for speed, it is on a numerical scale, hence up and down. Slowness may be relative, and described in numerical terms, but it doesn't have a close scientific relationship with numbers. It is a condition of speed. So something slows down to 30 or 40 but if it is slowing up it just isn't going as fast as it did before:

"It was going at 50 yesterday. How badly was it slowing up earlier today?" "Oh, it slowed down to 20".

Perhaps more than anything this reveals the era in which I was taught English. We didn't have grammar and much was based on sound. In theory I am of the "old school" but in practice I am happy enough with how we were taught. Oddly, it suited me.

[french frank]

I think it does relate to monks, but were they so formal?

Well, we don't know who was asking, 'Dormez-vous?', do we? It could be a younger monk to an older monk; or a reverend father to a brother; or a servant to a brother. Vous is not just formal, it also carries a measure of respect.

[Lateralthinking1]

Why is the ending of "matines" pronounced as an "a"?

[french frank]

Why is the ending of "matines" pronounced as an "a"?

The so-called feminine ending counts as a syllable in verse and when sung.

So in Carmen, for example: La fleur que tu m'avais jetée: the final e of jetée is pronounced i.e. the word had three syllables.

[Lateralthinking1]

The so-called feminine ending counts as a syllable in verse and when sung.

So in Carmen, for example: La fleur que tu m'avais jetée: the final e of jetée is pronounced i.e. the word had three syllables.

Thank you. Interesting. I won't though ask you why we hear a "g" in bell sounds and the French don't. Or will I?

[french frank]

Thank you. Interesting. I won't though ask you why we hear a "g" in bell sounds and the French don't. Or will I?

I imagine because the g is the Englishman's not very good attempt at representing the nasalised vowels of Din, dan, don ...

French dogs go oua! oua! not woof, woof! too.

[Lateralthinking1]

I imagine because the g is the Englishman's not very good attempt at representing the nasalised vowels of Din, dan, don ...

French dogs go oua! oua! not woof, woof! too.

Alas, not wholly convincing frenchfrank. Ding Dong Merrily on High etc. Furthermore, every dog goes woof just as every sheep goes baa. This might be one area in which the French have some catching up to do.

(As I write "goes" I start to see where the "he went "I'd like a ham salad" and "she went no way"" thing comes from).

[MrGongGong]

Why don't Americans pronounce the L in Solder ?

(and I have asked an American but no answer yet )

[gurnemanz]

Why don't Americans pronounce the L in Solder ?

(and I have asked an American but no answer yet )

I don't know the answer, but there are quite a few other examples of an "l" being silent in front of another consonant: "folk", "talk", "palm","calf", "could", "should", "Lincoln", "Ralph" (Vaughan Williams)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Why don't Americans pronounce the L in Solder ?

It's a letter they don't like - hence "marvellous" becomes ""marvelous"; "traveller" becomes "traveler", etc.

[mangerton]

Why is the ending of "matines" pronounced as an "a"?

Linguistically, I think that is called a "schwa". (qv)



And shurely (#129) sheep go meh.

[mangerton]

Why don't Americans pronounce the L in Solder ?

(and I have asked an American but no answer yet )

I've no idea why the 'ell they do it, but it's extremely annoying, and I wish they'd stop.

[marthe]

EA: the missing L might be Websterisms. We (Yanks) do, however, pronounce the L in "Ralph" and "golf." The last time I listened, we did pronounce the L in "soldier." I always though that "sojjer" was BrE. However, I say "sodder" and my husband says "solder" for that useful stuff that mends metalwork. As they say, "go figure." We also double up on Ls in enroll (enrol). The L question is really all over the map. The L-Shaped Room any one?