Pedants' Paradise

[Old Grumpy]

An easy mistake to make - you don't see panpipe players surrounded by palms and lush jungle do you...

On Peru:

https://www.peru.travel/en/useful-data/climate#:~:text=Latitudinal%20location%20of%20Peru %3A%20Peru%27s,makes%20it%20a%20tropical%20country .

[smittims]

Well, quite a bit of Peru is at sea level!

I suppose we all have an inalienable right to be ignorant if we choose. But it's a long time since I heard that old chestnut 'I'm glad I don't know anything about music. It might stop me enjoyng it'.

[oddoneout]

Perhaps the word 'tropical' brings to mind, at least in his case, nothing more than hot steamy jungles.

Yes that was what I was meaning - left part of my comment out I realise now. Pan pipes are associated with people wearing colourful blankets against a backdrop of cold looking mountains, and that's not tropical in people's minds. The problem of one word doing 2 jobs, one of which is by far the most familiar but not necessarily correct, depending on context.

[vinteuil]

The problem of one word doing 2 jobs, one of which is by far the most familiar but not necessarily correct, depending on context.

... yes : like 'desert island' - as a child I always imagined it as sand with perhaps a few palm trees (as in frequent cartoons), because for me 'desert' meant Sahara, dunes, sand. Only much later did I realize that 'desert' here just meant 'deserted', so you could have a cold wet craggy windswept fastness that would still be a 'desert island'. Not what adherents of the Sleepy Lagoon imagine (and I know that Mr Coates was in Sussex looking over towards Bognor Regis at the time... )


And the oranges in Tropicana orange juice probably come from Florida and California - neither in the tropics : should we alert the Advertising Standards people?




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[Old Grumpy]

And the oranges in Tropicana orange juice probably come from Florida and California - neither in the tropics...

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Another myth busted!...


...and in Club Tropicana the drinks aren't free!

[french frank]

Bump, as the most recent posts here have been moved to The essence of music.

[Padraig]

It's an interesting linguistic point. My feeling would be that the words 'masculine' and 'feminine' couldn't originally have been about gender as such - even though the concept existed in several linguistic families: Romance, Germanic &c. Why would a table be recognised as being female but a chair is male? I'm not sure where the grammatical nomenclature of masculine and feminine originated. It's not the kind of idea which seems rigid and preordained.

I recalled reading this, french frank, when this little lesson came my way just now. I hope it is of interest.

Making Sense of Irish Gender – The Geeky Gaeilgeoir

[french frank]

I recalled reading this, french frank, when this little lesson came my way just now. I hope it is of interest.

Making Sense of Irish Gender – The Geeky Gaeilgeoir

Thank you, Padraig. That certainly supports my view: "For the most part, however, “gender” in language has nothing to do with biological sex." The mystery remains as to why, historically, the terms masculine and feminine came to be used, and are still used, when they unequivocally (are you sure of that, ff?) refer to biological sex.

"In grammar, we use the concept of gender to describe how a word will behave in certain grammatical circumstances, as well as the effect(s) it might have on the words around it, particularly adjectives."

I confess I've become a bit confused in recent times as to exactly what the term 'gender' means ...

[Padraig]

Thank you, Padraig. The mystery remains as to why, historically, the terms masculine and feminine came to be used, and are still used, when they unequivocally (are you sure of that, ff?) refer to biological sex.

"In grammar, we use the concept of gender to describe how a word will behave in certain grammatical circumstances, as well as the effect(s) it might have on the words around it, particularly adjectives."

I confess I've become a bit confused in recent times as to exactly what the term 'gender' means ...

Perhaps native Irish speakers made up their own rules in the oral beginnings. Then came writing and scholars worked out why words were treated differently in terms of adjectives and pronouns and the article. On examination of the written findings they came across the concepts of broad and slender to explain some of the differences. Hence broad (male) and slender (female), which in turn became masculine and feminine, words borrowed from known English vocabulary, and thereby creating the ambiguity experienced nowadays. ??

[vinteuil]

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... from the BBC News website -

" Parthenon Sculptures deal 'close', ex-Greek official says"

(it does not explain how, why, or when Professor Irene Stamatoudi ceased to be a Greek citizen... )

[french frank]

" Parthenon Sculptures deal 'close', ex-Greek official says"

(it does not explain how, why, or when Professor Irene Stamatoudi ceased to be a Greek citizen... )

Also, I would pick up on the point that what the ex-Greek official actually said (having not been privy to any of the discussions) was that she believed ' "a deal is close" but was unsure if it was "close enough"'. So is there in fact any substance at all to this story about Professor Stamatoudi who may or may not have once been a Greek citizen and may or may not be one now? And if so, what is it?

[smittims]

The BBC news site also said that No.10 have denied that the subject was even on the agenda. I hope it wasn't. If we give them away we'll never get them back . I think the whole idea should be treated with utter contempt.

[Serial_Apologist]

The BBC news site also said that No.10 have denied that the subject was even on the agenda. I hope it wasn't. If we give them away we'll never get them back . I think the whole idea should be treated with utter contempt.

Why, smittims?

[vinteuil]

The BBC news site also said that No.10 have denied that the subject was even on the agenda. I hope it wasn't. If we give them away we'll never get them back . I think the whole idea should be treated with utter contempt.

... not, I think, a question of "giving them away", rather "giving them back".

I don't think "contempt" a useful emotion to deploy here

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/entertainment/survey-results/daily/2024/12/02/919af/2

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[Padraig]

... not, I think, a question of "giving them away", rather "giving them back".


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Nice one, M v. It's really an argument about translation, suitable for pedantic discussion.