Pedants' Paradise

[french frank]

Would you Adam and Eve it? A curtailed BBC headline in the Most Read list says:

'First woman completes one of world's toughest races'

[The main story reads:'Jasmin Paris first woman to complete gruelling Barkley Marathons race']

[Old Grumpy]

Spotted elsewhere on this board: "The data shows..."...


... surely data [pl] will show...

[Pulcinella]

Spotted elsewhere on this board: "The data shows..."...


... surely data [pl] will show...

No longer, OG.

This featured in last Saturday's Feedback column in the Times.

No fidgeting at the back, please. It’s time to talk about Latin and Greek plurals. David Birkett of Watford writes: “We have several words that come directly from Latin neuter nouns. The singular forms include referendum, spectrum, rostrum, datum and medium, and in Latin the plural requires the endings to be converted to ‘a’.

“This rule is generally followed correctly, with one exception — ‘data’ — no matter whether single or multiple pieces of information are being discussed. Is it not beyond the capability of your average hack to say ‘these data’ or ‘this datum’ where appropriate?”

I’m sure it would be if they were writing in Latin but The Times speaks English, on the whole. We have the OED’s backing for our house style: in modern, non-scientific use, it says, data is generally not treated as a plural.

“Instead, it is treated as a mass noun, similar to a word like information, which takes a singular verb. Sentences such as ‘data was collected over a number of years’ are now widely accepted in standard English.”

[smittims]

Hacker : There's only one item on the agenda.

Bernard: Yes, Prime Minister, but if there's only one item , strictly speaking, it's an agendum.

Hacker : Shut up, Bernard.



(That was about thirty years ago, but it could have happened yesterday... )

[kernelbogey]

...

I’m sure it would be if they were writing in Latin but The Times speaks English, on the whole. We have the OED’s backing for our house style: in modern, non-scientific use, it says, data is generally not treated as a plural.

“Instead, it is treated as a mass noun, similar to a word like information, which takes a singular verb. Sentences such as ‘data was collected over a number of years’ are now widely accepted in standard English.”

But are The Times the only arbiters?

[Old Grumpy]

But are The Times the only arbiters?

"Data is not generally treated as a plural" - since when did pedants follow generality?

[vinteuil]

I'm with The Times and the OED - data and media are now mass nouns taking singular verbs - the data tells us much we didn't know; the media just doesn't know how to cope with the misinformation from Putin

.

[LMcD]

No longer, OG.

This featured in last Saturday's Feedback column in the Times.

No fidgeting at the back, please. It’s time to talk about Latin and Greek plurals. David Birkett of Watford writes: “We have several words that come directly from Latin neuter nouns. The singular forms include referendum, spectrum, rostrum, datum and medium, and in Latin the plural requires the endings to be converted to ‘a’.

“This rule is generally followed correctly, with one exception — ‘data’ — no matter whether single or multiple pieces of information are being discussed. Is it not beyond the capability of your average hack to say ‘these data’ or ‘this datum’ where appropriate?”

I’m sure it would be if they were writing in Latin but The Times speaks English, on the whole. We have the OED’s backing for our house style: in modern, non-scientific use, it says, data is generally not treated as a plural.

“Instead, it is treated as a mass noun, similar to a word like information, which takes a singular verb. Sentences such as ‘data was collected over a number of years’ are now widely accepted in standard English.”

One way of getting round the problem might be to begin the phrase or sentence with 'According to the data' .....
I'm not sure how generally the rule you mention is followed.. The media is always telling us what a particular bacteria does and sometimes also identifies the criteria by which its effectiveness is judged.

[smittims]

I'm relieved to find that I'm not the only amateur (or it it amateurish?) typist who transposes two letters occasionally. In next week's 'Classical Live' the 'muisc' (sic) includes some of Mendelssohn's Lieder ohne Wrote (sic).

Some of the best Lieder wot I have wrote, perhaps.

[french frank]

But are The Times the only arbiters?

Possibly, so that should be: Is the The Times the only arbiter? If that was what you were angling for, kb

Otherwise: "Usage changes rules."

[Old Grumpy]

Possibly, so that should be: Is the The Times the only arbiter? If that was what you were angling for, kb

Otherwise: "Usage changes rules."

A case of Times they is a changin', perhaps?

[Pulcinella]

A case of Times they is a changin', perhaps?

Indeed it is.
Over the weekend, there were appearances of both loo-roll and toilet paper; previously, both of these would have been lavatory paper!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b5f0746a-305b-4f9d-bf52-e6efb6bb6816?shareToken=446a087842156e20d106dfe9bc1db833

[Old Grumpy]

Indeed it is.
Over the weekend, there were appearances of both loo-roll and toilet paper; previously, both of these would have been lavatory paper

And prior to that it might have even been The Times itself!

[oddoneout]

I'm relieved to find that I'm not the only amateur (or it it amateurish?) typist who transposes two letters occasionally. In next week's 'Classical Live' the 'muisc' (sic) includes some of Mendelssohn's Lieder ohne Wrote (sic).

Some of the best Lieder wot I have wrote, perhaps.

Indeed, a hitherto undiscovered Morecambe and Wise masterpiece.

[french frank]

Reading this morning's Guardian newletter I was struck by the use of the verb 'to instate'. 'Reinstate' is common but 'instate'?

[For context: "Khan has categorically ruled out road charges while he is mayor, despite rumours that he planned to instate them by 2026...". Or 'impose'? NB This is a post about word usage ]