Pedants' Paradise

[french frank]

An interesting point about bare plurals. When the Prime Minister said (if he had actually said), "Stopping small boats is 'priority' for British people" he was correct. But that is a BBC headline. The actual story below the headline has the intro: "Stopping the arrival of small boats is a "priority" for the British people, Rishi Sunak has said as he defended the government's new asylum plan." This - and being a British person I am able to pronounce - is inaccurate.

It reminds me of Dr Miller's account of a purported exchange between Bertrand Russell and GE Moore on the subject of apples.

[kernelbogey]

..."Stopping the arrival of small boats is a "priority" for the British people, Rishi Sunak has said as he defended the government's new asylum plan." This - and being a British person I am able to pronounce - is inaccurate.

Yes - even if you and I are the only ones for whom it is neither a "priority" nor (imv) a particularly sensible idea. The phrase 'not in my name' springs rapidly to mind.

If I have a related priority it is for someone to get a grip on the Home Office, which remains 'not fit for purpose'. And for that someone not to be a proto-fascist would be an advantage.

But I digress from grammar.

[Serial_Apologist]

Over on the Jazz Bored I've tentatively queried the following from Saturday's publicity for Freeness, both in Radio Times and on the programme page:

... [a] paired back trio led by New York-based pianist Eva Novoa ...

Paired might have passed muster had the unit referred to been reduced to a duo; but surely, being a trio, this should have been pared??

[ardcarp]

I did wonder about starting a new thread for the French word 'timbre', but really I'm only being a grumpy old git so I thought this was the place for it!

Has anyone noticed how many presenters, wanting to use the word to describe 'tone', pronounce it TOMBRE? Where does the TOM come from? In French, 'im' is surely spoken with an approximation to 'am', thus 'tambre'. Tell me I'm being over-picky someone.

[Bryn]

I did wonder about starting a new thread for the French word 'timbre', but really I'm only being a grumpy old git so I thought this was the place for it!

Has anyone noticed how many presenters, wanting to use the word to describe 'tone', pronounce it TOMBRE? Where does the TOM come from? In French, 'im' is surely spoken with an approximation to 'am', thus 'tambre'. Tell me I'm being over-picky someone.

Never mind" tombre", what about "timber", as heard on Radio 3 in the past hour.

[french frank]

I did wonder about starting a new thread for the French word 'timbre', but really I'm only being a grumpy old git so I thought this was the place for it!

Has anyone noticed how many presenters, wanting to use the word to describe 'tone', pronounce it TOMBRE? Where does the TOM come from? In French, 'im' is surely spoken with an approximation to 'am', thus 'tambre'. Tell me I'm being over-picky someone.

It seems to be due to a general difficulty that native English speakers have always had with nasalised vowels. If they were to nasalise the vowel in the English word 'timber' they would be saying (very approximately!) 'tamber'. Could you explain to people how to nasalise the -im- vowel rather pronoucing it timm-ber?

PS Bryn has now opened another can of worms.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I did wonder about starting a new thread for the French word 'timbre', but really I'm only being a grumpy old git so I thought this was the place for it!

Has anyone noticed how many presenters, wanting to use the word to describe 'tone', pronounce it TOMBRE? Where does the TOM come from? In French, 'im' is surely spoken with an approximation to 'am', thus 'tambre'. Tell me I'm being over-picky someone.

As a side issue why do so many English people think the French word for stamp is estampes

[Bryn]

As a side issue why do so many English people think the French word for stamp is estampes

Nicely relevant.

[oddoneout]

Never mind" tombre", what about "timber", as heard on Radio 3 in the past hour.

Henry Wood rising from the grave?

[Bryn]

Henry Wood rising from the grave?

[french frank]

I thought my entire universe was about to crumble: two people, two days running, referring to the 'celandeen'. I may have been wrong all my life, but I could never change to pronouncing it celandeen. Fortunately, OED to the rescue - only one British pronunciation: ˈsɛlənˌdaɪn. Americans pronounce it both ways, with celandeen (sɛlənˌdin) mentioned first. But, all's right with the world: ˈsɛlənˌdaɪn for ever

Postscript: William Wordsworth

There is a Flower, the Lesser Celandine,
That shrinks, like many more, from cold and rain;
And, the first moment that the sun may shine,
Bright as the sun himself, 'tis out again!

[gurnemanz]

I thought my entire universe was about to crumble: two people, two days running, referring to the 'celandeen'. I may have been wrong all my life, but I could never change to pronouncing it celandeen. Fortunately, OED to the rescue - only one British pronunciation: ˈsɛlənˌdaɪn. Americans pronounce it both ways, with celandeen (sɛlənˌdin) mentioned first. But, all's right with the world: ˈsɛlənˌdaɪn for ever

Postscript: William Wordsworth

There is a Flower, the Lesser Celandine,
That shrinks, like many more, from cold and rain;
And, the first moment that the sun may shine,
Bright as the sun himself, 'tis out again!

Pretty flowers but an invasive weed with which we fight an ongoing battle in our garden.

[ardcarp]

What makes a pretty flower an invasive weed? Discuss.

[french frank]

What makes a pretty flower an invasive weed? Discuss.

Not mere persistence but taking up too much of the available space by smothering a number of other species. My ˈsɛlənˌdaɪnz were up on the Common where they will fight for territory with the creeping clover and creeping buttercups. So 'invasive' implies that one species takes over (and may be hard to eradicate depending on how it spreads).

[Serial_Apologist]

Not mere persistence but taking up too much of the available space by smothering a number of other species. My ˈsɛlənˌdaɪnz were up on the Common where they will fight for territory with the creeping clover and creeping buttercups. So 'invasive' implies that one species takes over (and may be hard to eradicate depending on how it spreads).

Perhaps they should be re-categorised as greater clutterbups then!