Pedants' Paradise

[french frank]

Might is right!

Incriminating!

[cloughie]

Wouldn't that also be possible (purely grammatically) if 'might' had been used ('and it still may be')? Though given that the option is no longer available anyway, I don't know. I think your instinct is correct.

'It could have been the better option' v 'It can have been'?

I cringe when I hear ‘could of been’, ‘could of’.

[oddoneout]

"We are the place to be"

Georgia Mann opening Essential Classics this morning.

[kernelbogey]

Jon Silpayamanant considers how the rise of concert music, nationalism and cultural exchange shaped different classical musics. - World of Classical, BBC website
Hmm, not sure about that plural noun. It saves a couple of words or so - kinds of music would have done - but seems to suggest that there are many musics, rather than music as a single entitiy, with many styles.

[french frank]

Jon Silpayamanant considers how the rise of concert music, nationalism and cultural exchange shaped different classical musics. - World of Classical, BBC website
Hmm, not sure about that plural noun. It saves a couple of words or so - kinds of music would have done - but seems to suggest that there are many musics, rather than music as a single entitiy, with many styles.

I think that has passed into current usage. I would read 'different classical musics' in this context as a non specific term to include western classical music and, perhaps, Indian, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean - whatever the speaker wanted to include for his present purpose. It is more specific than 'different kinds of music'.

I find:

1942 Scrutiny 10 4/376 It was just as natural for him [sc. Elgar] to compose Pomp and Circumstance and the other occasional musics that so alarm the purists as it was for him to compose the..Enigma Variations.

1975 New Yorker 10 Feb. 111/1 It is..an overextended loosely rhapsodic sequence of procedures from traditional black and modern white musics.

These seems closest to the usage under discussion.

[ahinton]

Might is right!

Might might be right, right?...

[kernelbogey]

I think that has passed into current usage.

I expectd to read such a challenge: and your 1942 example is impressive. Nonetheless I would not write such a plural: partly because I would want to emphasise commonality rather than difference. I'm not sure that, for me, the plural embraces a notion of diversity.

[french frank]

I would want to emphasise commonality rather than difference. I'm not sure that, for me, the plural embraces a notion of diversity.

I can't presume to know what the user intended, but I assume you put your finger on the matter i.e. that he did NOT want to emphasise the commonality. The 1975 example suggests that the plural usage started in the US.

In general, contemplating the matter since I last posted, I think there are roughly (that's 'roughy' ) analogous, now standard, usages where the singular is an abstract concept of something, the plural points to specifics. 'War' can be used as an all-embracing term for a general concept, whereas 'wars' (as in The Wars of the Roses) becomes specific based on the details of particular examples of war. 'Philosophy' is a very general term which does not distinguish between different schools of thought at different times and in different places.

Is it possible that 'music' as a general term has, in certain contexts, been replaced by the plural with the expanding inclusion of other kinds of music of a diversity which would not formerly have been considered?

[kernelbogey]

Is it possible that 'music' as a general term has, in certain contexts, been replaced by the plural with the expanding inclusion of other kinds of music of a diversity which would not formerly have been considered?

I can concede that 'music' might be considered in some sense abstract - a sequence of notes and chords, and not anything else. Also I agree the expansion of awareness of other modalities of music from differing cultures is relevant. So perhaps I can agree that both singular and plural versions have their places.

(If musics be the foods of loves.... )

[french frank]

(If musics be the foods of loves.... )

I could not have put it more succinctly!

[Maclintick]

If musics be the foods of loves....

Discussion of "foods" I hope allows me to move the goalposts to the gastronomic sphere viz. puerile nomenclature now found in most supermarkets.To my mild annoyance, hitherto distinct varieties of citrus fruit, tangerines, clementines, mandarins, satsumas etc., are now all lumped under the catch-all appellation of "Easy Peelers", so that I'm compelled to rummage through the shelves, examining bar-coded labels to find the variety I desire. As far as I'm aware there is no citrus fruit classified as "Easy Peeler". Imagine if all the apple cultivars were lumped together under an equally infantile designation "Juicy Munchies" or somesuch...

[HighlandDougie]

I expectd to read such a challenge: and your 1942 example is impressive. Nonetheless I would not write such a plural: partly because I would want to emphasise commonality rather than difference. I'm not sure that, for me, the plural embraces a notion of diversity.

Ooerr, I hesitate even to enter into the rarified atmosphere of this thread but “commonality” surely means the - apologies - “common herd”, rather than what I think of as, “common-ness”. Or am I spouting complete nonsense?

[oddoneout]

Discussion of "foods" I hope allows me to move the goalposts to the gastronomic sphere viz. puerile nomenclature now found in most supermarkets.To my mild annoyance, hitherto distinct varieties of citrus fruit, tangerines, clementines, mandarins, satsumas etc., are now all lumped under the catch-all appellation of "Easy Peelers", so that I'm compelled to rummage through the shelves, examining bar-coded labels to find the variety I desire.As far as I'm aware there is no citrus fruit classified as "Easy Peeler" . Imagine if all the apple cultivars were lumped together under an equally infantile designation "Juicy Munchies" or somesuch...

I take your point, but in terms of finding what you want the tag on the bags will have the variety and other info that might be wanted such as country of origin, although with loose fruit it is I admit more difficult to get at the label on the box - but that has long been the case due to the way the displays are set out.
However can I just point out that highlighting "Easy Peelers" does have its uses for some of us. I now have a lot of problems with arthritis in my hands and peeling the small citrus I like to eat can be difficult and painful if the skin doesn't want to part company with the flesh, so choosing easy peelers can make life easier. By the same token children will do better with such fruit in their lunchboxes.
It does mean something of a compromise as the flavour of the "hard peelers" is often better, but I'd rather that compromise than do without altogether.
Potatoes suffer from something similar as they will say "reds" or "whites" prominently rather than the variety. Or, in the case of Tesco the display proudly declaring British in large letters alongside an equally large picture of potatoes (spuds) is always at least half full of sweet potatoes from the USA... I have pointed it out several times to staff but head office evidently wants it like that so it stays.

[Maclintick]

However can I just point out that highlighting "Easy Peelers" does have its uses for some of us. I now have a lot of problems with arthritis in my hands and peeling the small citrus I like to eat can be difficult and painful if the skin doesn't want to part company with the flesh, so choosing easy peelers can make life easier. By the same token children will do better with such fruit in their lunchboxes.

These are both valid points, and any initiative which helps people with problems with their hands and fingers, & encourages children to eat fruit is to be applauded, but surely the supermarkets could devise a better system of labelling....

[french frank]

These are both valid points, and any initiative which helps people with problems with their hands and fingers, & encourages children to eat fruit is to be applauded, but surely the supermarkets could devise a better system of labelling....

My argument with "Easy peelers" is that they aren't. The peel comes off in tiny pieces so that instead of the entire peel being removed in three or four pieces, it takes about thirty very small pieces and nearly as many minutes. I now prefer the thick skinned oranges where two completely circular longitudinal cuts allow removal of the four quarters, one piece per quarter.