Pedants' Paradise

[LezLee]

I asked a couple of Scottish friends why (the place name) Lenzie isn't pronounced Lingie. They couldn't answer me and thought I was trying to be clever!

[John Locke]

I asked a couple of Scottish friends why (the place name) Lenzie isn't pronounced Lingie. They couldn't answer me and thought I was trying to be clever!

Lenzie is another example:

"Lenzie is now generally pronounced with a /z/, but used to be pronounced /lɛnjɪ/. This is because the original Scots spelling, Lenȝie, contained the letter yogh, which was later confused with the tailed z."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenzie#Toponymy

Robert Menzies (an Australian) pronounced his name as spelled. Menzies Campbell pronounces his name as Mingis/ˈmɪŋɪs. The ȝ sound makes it more like Min'yis.

[cloughie]

Lenzie is another example:

"Lenzie is now generally pronounced with a /z/, but used to be pronounced /lɛnjɪ/. This is because the original Scots spelling, Lenȝie, contained the letter yogh, which was later confused with the tailed z."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenzie#Toponymy

Robert Menzies (an Australian) pronounced his name as spelled. Menzies Campbell pronounces his name as Mingis/ˈmɪŋɪs. The ȝ sound makes it more like Min'yis.

Cf bh being v in Ireland!

[gurnemanz]

Cf bh being v in Ireland!

Wouldn't bh be bilabial, ie not quite the same as the labiodental v?

[alycidon]

As one who has lived in Scotland for thirty-two years I can confirm that similar word constructions are pronounced differently. For example, just outside Inverness the name Daviot is pronounced as in David, but the same name near Aberdeen is pronounced to rhyme with savvy. There are numerous examples I could quote.

[vinteuil]

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... one of mme v's (Scottish) father's middle names was Æneas.

I thought this was impressively exotic - but I gather it's just another way of spelling Angus.

Not quite as exciting as I had thought ...





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[alycidon]

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... one of mme v's (Scottish) father's middle names was Æneas.

I thought this was impressively exotic - but I gather it's just another way of spelling Angus.

Not quite as exciting as I had thought ...





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That’s another one, of course, vinteuil. The Gaelic ‘Aonghas’ is pronounced Innes!

[cloughie]

Wouldn't bh be bilabial, ie not quite the same as the labiodental v?

I don’t know the technicalities maybe I should ask Siobhan from Kobh.

[cloughie]

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... one of mme v's (Scottish) father's middle names was Æneas.

I thought this was impressively exotic - but I gather it's just another way of spelling Angus.

Not quite as exciting as I had thought ...





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Should have got together with the the Welsh baker!

[vinteuil]

Should have got together with the the Welsh baker!

... I thought our Janet was English -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_50zj7J50U

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[Richard Tarleton]

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... one of mme v's (Scottish) father's middle names was Æneas.

I thought this was impressively exotic - but I gather it's just another way of spelling Angus.

Not quite as exciting as I had thought ...





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A popular name (both forms) among the chiefs of Clan Ranald of Knoydart and Glengarry, aka MacDonells of Glengarry

[un barbu]

Myles na gCopaleen used to have fun with his native Gaelic, or Erse if you prefer, in which he was fluent and in which he wrote a fine satire translated as 'The Poor Mouth.' One of his Cruiskeen Lawn pieces during the war is headed 'Romal Ceaptuird' (to be read phonetically, sort of.)

[Padraig]

Myles na gCopaleen used to have fun with his native Gaelic, or Erse if you prefer, in which he was fluent and in which he wrote a fine satire translated as 'The Poor Mouth.' One of his Cruiskeen Lawn pieces during the war is headed 'Romal Ceaptuird' (to be read phonetically, sort of.)

He was also fond of translating literally from the Irish to the amusement of the Irish Language challenged:

I was a day in Dingle and Paddy James, my sister's man, in company with me, and us in the direction of each other in the running of the day. A man he was that would not have a glass of whiskey long between his hands, or a pint of black porter either, without shooting them backwards; but he got no sweet taste ever on the one he would buy himself, and great would be the pleasure with him that another man should nudge him in the back to ask him to have one with him.

I was in Strabane recently and viewed O'Nolan's statue in the Town Square, and the Blue Plaque on his residence in the Bowling Green. I did not realise that I once lived quite near there, and that I could have crossed his path when I was a boy.

[Padraig]

I don’t know the technicalities maybe I should ask Siobhan from Kobh.

Depends which Siobhan you ask, cloughie.

But treat yourself to Siobhan's little lesson; she's nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01u1UqnANIE

[vinteuil]

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An update:

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... and talking of Sowthey - how do you pronounce the great essayist : growing up I assumed it was Hazz-litt, but as an undergraduate I was persuaded it shd be Haze-litt.
Any views? Praps I shd contact the Hazlitt Society...
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Hot news from the Hazlitt Society :

Hi - interesting question! I've never heard anything other than a short 'a', i.e. Hazz-litt, as in IPA (British) 'haz,lɪt or 'haz,lət, (US) 'hæz,lət. I've never heard anyone say 'heɪz,lət.

and

Yes, Suh-thee versus Sow-thee is a known crux, and we know that R.S. preferred the latter because of his own complaints; doubtless it amused Byron a lot in Don Juan to get it right but still rhyme it with 'mouthy' and 'drouthy', suggesting both gushing Laker wet, and 'dry Bob'.

I think ferney needs to re-visit his Keswick bookseller and apologize ...

And the poet Robert Southey, whose name should be pronounced "Suthey" (as in "southerner") if we wish to replicate how he himself ao used to do. A bookseller in Keswick tried to "correct" me into saying "South-ey" (resulting in an encounter she won't forget in a hurry); an error replicated in a QI programme last year after Sandy Toksvig, having pronounced it correctly, "corrected" by panelist Sally Phillips (someone who always comes across as having far too high an opinion of herself).

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