Pedants' Paradise

[vinteuil]

Which ignores all those (such as Elgar and RVW) who not so long ago spelt 'show' as 'shew'. In fact I worked with someone in the 1970s who did the same. It was pronounced 'show'.

... and 'sew' is still pronounced 'so'.


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[Pabmusic]

... and 'sew' is still pronounced 'so'.


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Indeed.

[Bryn]

... and 'sew' is still pronounced 'so'.


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How is saw pronounced though?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

There is another place name, over which there is some controversy as to its pronunciation: Southall (in Middlesex). Some pronounce it the way it is spelt, others as SUTHALL, though I have been assured by a lady who was born and brought up there that as spelt is the correct way.

... Suthall, always. Like Southwell...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southw...ottinghamshire

And the poet Robert Southey, whose name should be pronounced "Suthey" (as in "southerner") if we wish to replicate how he himself ao used to do. A bookseller in Keswick tried to "correct" me into saying "South-ey" (resulting in an encounter she won't forget in a hurry); an error replicated in a QI programme last year after Sandy Toksvig, having pronounced it correctly, "corrected" by panelist Sally Phillips (someone who always comes across as having far too high an opinion of herself).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The pedant in me wishes to move most of the recent posts to the "Pronunciation Watch" Thread - but there are too many for my personal "can I be bothered" algorithms to cope with.

[vinteuil]

And the poet Robert Southey, whose name should be pronounced "Suthey" (as in "southerner") if we wish to replicate how he himself ao used to do. A bookseller in Keswick tried to "correct" me into saying "South-ey" (resulting in an encounter she won't forget in a hurry); an error replicated in a QI programme last year after Sandy Toksvig, having pronounced it correctly, "corrected" by panelist Sally Phillips (someone who always comes across as having far too high an opinion of herself).

... hmmm - my tutor* wd have disagreed with you - he used as evidence Don Juan :

Thou shalt believe in Milton, Dryden, Pope;
Thou shalt not set up Wordsworth, Coleridge, Southey;
Because the first is crazed beyond all hope,
The second drunk, the third so quaint and mouthy:
With Crabbe it may be difficult to cope,
And Campbell’s Hipprocrene is somewhat drouthy:
Thou shalt not steal from Samuel Rogers, nor
Commit—flirtation with the muse of Moore.


* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Wordsworth

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[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Hmmm - seeing that Don Juan is a satirical poem, it need not be taken as a pronunciation guide to the Bristolian's surname by he Londoner who despised his work, need it? Especially given that Byron's ironic dedication of Don Juan to Southey includes the memorable rhyming of "laureate" with "Tory at"!

(The two men, IIRC, only met once - when the focus of their conversation was their personal appearance; Byron was rather taken with Southey's features.)

[vinteuil]

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... yes, Byron (who loathed Southey) did think he was 'the best looking bard he had seen in some time'.

Wiki tells us : "Southey's biographer comments that: "There should be no doubt as to the proper pronunciation of the name: 'Sowthey'. The poet himself complained that people in the North would call him 'Mr Suthy'" (Jack Simmons: Southey (London: Collins, 1945)"

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[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Wiki tells us : "Southey's biographer comments that: "There should be no doubt as to the proper pronunciation of the name: 'Sowthey'. The poet himself complained that people in the North would call him 'Mr Suthy'" (Jack Simmons: Southey (London: Collins, 1945)"

Oh! That, if true, would be very disappointing.

[Joseph K]

Yep the name 'Don Juan' is made to rhyme with 'true one'... great poem though, one of my most favourite...

[John Locke]

Thou shalt not set up Wordsworth, Coleridge, Southey;
Because the first is crazed beyond all hope,
The second drunk, the third so quaint and mouthy:
With Crabbe it may be difficult to cope,
And Campbell’s Hipprocrene is somewhat drouthy:

But drouthy is Scottish and is pronounced, roughly, droothy, so you have Suthey, mauoothy, droothy!

[vinteuil]

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... and talking of Sowthey - how do you pronounce the great essayist : growing up I assumed it was Hazz-litt, but as an undergraduate I was persuaded it shd be Haze-litt.

Any views? Praps I shd contact the Hazlitt Society...





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[John Locke]

He's Scoittish. The auld z is pronounced differently. Hallitt.

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... and talking of Sowthey - how do you pronounce the great essayist : growing up I assumed it was Hazz-litt, but as an undergraduate I was persuaded it shd be Haze-litt.

Any views? Praps I shd contact the Hazlitt Society...





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[vinteuil]

He's Scoittish. The auld z is pronounced differently.

hmmm. As in Menzies/Mingis.

His (Irish) pa certainly sat at Adam Smith's feet at the university of Glasgow. By the time young William was born (in Kent) in 1778 I'm not sure how the pronunciation might have settled.

More background details needed before I'm convinced...


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[John Locke]

hmmm. As in Menzies/Mingis.

Culzean/Cullane Capercailzie Capercaillie Mackenzie/Mackenyie.

More background details needed before I'm convinced...

Ah. My intention was only to broaden the range of possibility. I would say Hazz-litt, like haslet - the pork meatloaf.