Pedants' Paradise

[vinteuil]

When (and I suppose, why) did the habit of knocking the 'the' of long established titles and names emerge from?

... yebbut - nobut - yebbut - nobut....


... wharrabout those classy digs off Piccadilly: "Albany" or "the Albany"??
I were brung up to say "Albany", and to sneer at them what didn't know, who said "the Albany". And yet I think there do be some precedents for "the Albany" - Dickens, Wilde, Hornung ....


.

[Serial_Apologist]

... yebbut - nobut - yebbut - nobut....


... wharrabout those classy digs off Piccadilly: "Albany" or "the Albany"??
I were brung up to say "Albany", and to sneer at them what didn't know who said "the Albany". And yet I think there do be some precedents for "the Albany"....

"Which way will you be travelling?"
"By District Line" or "On the District Line"?

I'm not sure there are any hard and fast rules either.

[Stillhomewardbound]

I guess it varies from example to example, but I wouldn't like to make a generalisation. In the above, "on to the balcony of Buckingham palace" makes more sense somehow than "on to the balcony of the Buckingham Palace" - Buckingham Palace being a destination, in the same way one would speak of "going to Blackheath", not "going to the Blackheath". It's a place name, as opposed to "the black heath" of presumably agreed association, in context.

On the other hand, I have often written articles containing such lines as "Jim Mullen was on guitar last night, insteasd of his usual bass". "On the guitar" sounds somehow overloaded, too much information. THE guitar, not A guitar? - if you see what I mean.

Sorry, SA. You're slightly missing the point there. I was only alluding to the potential omission of 'the' before 'Royal Family'.

[Sir Velo]

When (and I suppose, why) did the habit of knocking the 'the' of long established titles and names emerge from?

Over recent years the likes of THE Royal Albert Hall, THE Royal Festival Hall and indeed THE Proms have lost their 'the' but I don't regard it as just a change in convention that I'm reluctant to adapt to. I mean, it seems only logical to me to refer to the likes of THE BBC Symphony Orchestra it being the symphony orchestra of THE BBC.

Well (the) BBC is obviously making a stand against the British Council's advice on the use of the definite article. Be interesting to know what has prompted this lone stand.

[vinteuil]

the British Council

The British Council used to insist in its house style rules that it was "The British Council", initial caps throughout. Like "The Times".

I see from the link supplied by Sir Velo that it is now "British Council". So trendy...

[Bryn]

Blame Wigmore Hall's management.

[french frank]

I see from the link supplied by Sir Velo that it is now "British Council". So trendy...

And just above the directions for using the the direct article too!:

"• organisations:

the United Nations; the Seamen’s Union"

However, it isn't that 'trendy' since it also quotes: "She works for a group to help the disabled." Everyone knows we say 'disabled people', now, not 'the disabled'. Although I think we're allowed to say: "I think the rich should pay more taxes."

PS Must investigate the possibility of changing the banner to "Radio 3 Forum"

[jean]

Blame Wigmore Hall's management.

Did they start it? It was certainly one of the first examples I was aware of.

Now there's scarcely a concert hall or gallery that hasn't dropped its the, though one of the newest seems to have bucked the trend.

I can see the logic behind Tate Britain and Tate Modern, and Tate Liverpool probably sounds quite logical too unless you are actually in Liverpool and there isn't another Tate for miles.

[Stillhomewardbound]

PS Must investigate the possibility of changing the banner to "Radio 3 Forum"

Ha, ha!

[Sir Velo]

The British Council used to insist in its house style rules that it was "The British Council", initial caps throughout. Like "The Times".

I see from the link supplied by Sir Velo that it is now "British Council". So trendy...

Missed that.

Flatly contradicting their own guidance that you use the definite article with "organisations" such as The United Nations and, er, The British Council.

[teamsaint]

Missed that.

Flatly contradicting their own guidance that you use the definite article with "organisations" such as The United Nations and, er, The British Council.

I thank the lord that the old footy stadium in Southampton didn't survive long enough to be subject such terrible rebranding crimes.

[Sydney Grew]

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

upcoming, ppl. a.: That is about to happen, etc., forthcoming. Chiefly U.S.

May I respectfully recommend "coming events" (short and sweet)? "Approaching events" might be considered; but "forthcoming events" probably not. We all remember do we not the wise words of Sigmund Freud: "Admittedly America is gigantic, but it is a gigantic mistake."

[pilamenon]

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

upcoming, ppl. a.: That is about to happen, etc., forthcoming. Chiefly U.S.

May I respectfully recommend "coming events" (short and sweet)? "Approaching events" might be considered; but "forthcoming events" probably not. We all remember do we not the wise words of Sigmund Freud: "Admittedly America is gigantic, but it is a gigantic mistake."

Surely we should now say "events going forward"?

[Angle]

"Upcoming" is detestable and,as for so much that has changed for the worse, I blame the Americans but not all Americans. Just Americans.

When have I ever heard them refer to THE Carnegie Hall or THE Lincoln Centre? And do they still talk of THE Hollywood Bowl.

It is all sheer trendiness, aped by BBC !

In Liverpool, by the way, Tate Liverpool is referred to as THE Tate.

Support t'Definite Article.

[jean]

In Liverpool, by the way, Tate Liverpool is referred to as THE Tate.

I know, that's what I said.

But (as I also said) there is a certain logic to Tate Britain and Tate Modern.

They're certainly doing their best to make us talk about Philharmonic Hall.

Support t'Definite Article.

One thing's certain - we never talk like that.