Pedants' Paradise

[french frank]

The OED (helpfully?) says: "As in many other adoptions of Fr. adjs. used as sbs., the fem. form has been ignorantly substituted for the masc.: cf. locale, morale (of an army) etc."

Yes, I looked up Fowler's contribution (2nd ed. so not sure whether the entry dates from 1926 or 1965, presumably 1926):

"forte, person's strong point. For the spelling which should have been (but is not) fort, cf. MORALE. Pronounce fort, unlike the musical term for'tē."

[jean]

It must be Gowers in 1965. Echt Fowler in 1926 has separate entries for each:

forte, person's strong point. For the spelling, which should have been (but should not be) fort, cf. MORALE.

(My emphasis - the implication seems to be that the pedants were still trying to correct the spelling. He takes it for granted that we know how to pronounce it.)

Then

forte (mus.). Two syllables.

[french frank]

Two further things: much appreciated the ref to Fencing and forte/foible. The French phrase le fort et le faible is still current for strong/weak aspects of a person or thing.

Fowler is quite funny (under MORALE) on the question of whether it is 'best' to add the 'e' or not to - much too long to copy out. But, "but who proposes to sacrifice the reader's convenience by correcting its 'ignorant' spelling?" gives a flavour. He takes the firm view that English is English and French is French, and there is no reason (or rationale, perhaps?) for either to assume precedence over the other in terms of correctness.

NB 'Fowler': scilicet the work going by this name, either by Fowler, or Fowler ed. Gowers, as jean illustrates.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Fowler is quite funny (under MORALE) on the question of whether it is 'best' to add the 'e' or not to -

"best".
I've never rated Fowler as highly as others do.

[jean]

Fowler is quite funny (under MORALE) on the question of whether it is 'best' to add the 'e' or not to - much too long to copy out.

But the original edition is available on Google Books, I discover. Here is the entry on Morale:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hrtIDakUpA4C&pg=PT851&lpg=PT851&dq=Is+a+combination+of+pedantry+%26+Gallicism&source=bl&ots=ZTXc9YF7kI&sig=wSEK1os5cDnZmdKlXshdKOElscQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YaGQU5HNKe7o7Ab84IGABg&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Is%20a%20combination%20of%20pedantry%20%26%20Gallicism&f=false

"best".
I've never rated Fowler as highly as others do.

Then think again; Fowler himself did not write "best" (though if he had, I have no doubt he could have justified his choice to my satisfaction).

[french frank]

"best".
I've never rated Fowler as highly as others do.

That's why I put it in quotes. He discusses the pros and cons.

But, it's true, Alps, Fowler does tend not to be over prescriptive .

[jean]

He observes that there are good practical reasons for adding 'e' to 'local' and 'moral', simply to avoid confusion.

He also points out (what had not occurred to me) that we have done the same thing with the German Choral, making it into Chorale for our own purposes.

[french frank]

Though, to add a bit of confusion, we pronounce them as if they were French. I have even heard 'finale' pronounced in such a way!

[Lento]

Richard Strauss: funny how some people pronounce "Richard" in a sort of German way, while keeping the anglophone pronunciation for "Strauss". Easier, and more consistent just to be totally incorrect about it?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

How do Forumistas pronounce "Ballet"? I've always emphasized the first syllable - Rob Cowen this morning made it sound more like "belay", with the emphasis very much on the second syllable.

[gurnemanz]

Richard Strauss: funny how some people pronounce "Richard" in a sort of German way, while keeping the anglophone pronunciation for "Strauss". Easier, and more consistent just to be totally incorrect about it?

Those people would be at home in Hamburg where they also prefer the anglophone "st" as opposed to standard German "sht" in words such as Strauss, Stein and Strasse.

[french frank]

How do Forumistas pronounce "Ballet"? I've always emphasized the first syllable - Rob Cowen this morning made it sound more like "belay", with the emphasis very much on the second syllable.

British English tends to bring a French stress forward, so BA-llet. Americans stick to the French emphasis, but over emphatically - ba-LLAAAY (cf fionss-AY for fiancé).

[gurnemanz]

British English tends to bring a French stress forward, so BA-llet. Americans stick to the French emphasis, but over emphatically - ba-LLAAAY (cf fionss-AY for fiancé).

There are quite alot of them: baton, blasé, chauffeur, décor, cliché, gourmet, beret, gateau + names Bernard, Renault etc

[Pabmusic]

There are quite alot of them: baton, blasé, chauffeur, décor, cliché, gourmet, beret, gateau + names Bernard, Renault etc

To which I think you could add garage, barage, visage, homage and the rest of those -age words, where the older British English pronunciation (emphasis on the first syllable, with the second pronounced -idge) has largely given way to the American/pseudo-French one.

[ardcarp]

...and there's ontrer-prun-ewer, which the French don't have a word for.