Pedants' Paradise

[oddoneout]

I don't like 'before' in this (maybe I should be posting on the Grumble thread!):



And while I'm at it, I don't like 'below' (rather than following) in phrases such as
Please select from the below options.

I don't have an issue with 'before' in that sentence; its meaning as 'in front of' is still widely used and, taking fewer letters and therefore space may be an advantage.
I do share your irritation at the pointless misplacing of 'below' in the option selection example. It always looks like an uncorrected schoolchild error to me. It's the kind of thing that I see increasingly in personal replies from businesses etc, and I'm sure comes mainly from from people who are too young to have gone through the 'don't correct, it curbs creativity' phase of schooling. In theory AI should help correct that but if it's learning from such material in the first place the errors will just become even more embedded.

[Pulcinella]

I don't have an issue with 'before' in that sentence; its meaning as 'in front of' is still widely used and, taking fewer letters and therefore space may be an advantage.
I do share your irritation at the pointless misplacing of 'below' in the option selection example. It always looks like an uncorrected schoolchild error to me. It's the kind of thing that I see increasingly in personal replies from businesses etc, and I'm sure comes mainly from from people who are too young to have gone through the 'don't correct, it curbs creativity' phase of schooling. In theory AI should help correct that but if it's learning from such material in the first place the errors will just become even more embedded.

But what if they congregated before St Peter's suddenly got blown up (perish the thought) or got floodlit in a laser light show?

[oddoneout]

But what if they congregated before St Peter's suddenly got blown up (perish the thought) or got floodlit in a laser light show?

I don't think that changes things; what follows will(should) make it clear which version of 'before' is being used - time or place.

[oliver sudden]

I don't have an issue with 'before' in that sentence; its meaning as 'in front of' is still widely used and, taking fewer letters and therefore space may be an advantage.
I do share your irritation at the pointless misplacing of 'below' in the option selection example. It always looks like an uncorrected schoolchild error to me. It's the kind of thing that I see increasingly in personal replies from businesses etc, and I'm sure comes mainly from from people who are too young to have gone through the 'don't correct, it curbs creativity' phase of schooling. In theory AI should help correct that but if it's learning from such material in the first place the errors will just become even more embedded.

What about ‘please select from the above options’? That seems fairly normal.

[Pulcinella]

I don't think that changes things; what follows will(should) make it clear which version of 'before' is being used - time or place.

True, but 'in front of' avoids that potential ambiguity, which is why I much prefer it.

[french frank]

I dislike 'no-brainer'. But then I dislike many fashionable phrases [...]

Presumably you dislike them because they're 'fashionable' or new to you? And yet - I'd guess - you will regularly use once-fashionable phrases because by the time you encountered them they were already established in contemporay usage?

[smittims]

I try always to say clearly what I mean. I've come to avoid metaphors if I can ; I think they've become a little overdone and too far-fetched these days.

[french frank]

I've come to avoid metaphors if I can ; I think they've become a little overdone and too far-fetched these days.

smittims dixit: "I'll give that a miss [US college slang 1819-1852] [...] Poor Roy Plomley would turn in his grave [1888 Jefferson might turn in his grave if he knew of such an attempt to introduce European distinctions of rank into his democracy.] [...]"

I rest my case [1744 Chiefly US law].

[Sir Velo]

‘Then you should say what you mean,’ the March Hare went on. ‘I do,’ Alice hastily replied; ‘at least—at least I mean what I say—that's the same thing, you know.’ ‘Not the same thing a bit!’ said the Hatter. ‘Why, you might just as well say that “I see what I eat” is the same thing as “I eat what I see!” ’

[oddoneout]

What about ‘please select from the above options’? That seems fairly normal.

Or, with reference to the original source of irritation, 'select from the options below'. Looking again at your suggestion perhaps gives the clue to why the 'below' version arose, since it is in effect the same construction - 'above/below options' rather than 'options above/below', so in due course will seem as normal as 'above options', although that isn't one I favour.

[Pulcinella]

Or, with reference to the original source of irritation, 'select from the options below'. Looking again at your suggestion perhaps gives the clue to why the 'below' version arose, since it is in effect the same construction - 'above/below options' rather than 'options above/below', so in due course will seem as normal as 'above options', although that isn't one I favour.

Agreed: I'd use 'options above'.

[oddoneout]

How young is too young to be an online influencer?

Baby wombat-snatching US influencer

Poor placement of hyphens is a bit of a bugbear of mine and does often lead to silly outcomes, sometimes the opposite of what was intended, but this I thought should have been too obvious to be allowed to stand. Evidently not.

[french frank]

How young is too young to be an online influencer?

Baby wombat-snatching US influencer

Poor placement of hyphens is a bit of a bugbear of mine and does often lead to silly outcomes, sometimes the opposite of what was intended, but this I thought should have been too obvious to be allowed to stand. Evidently not.

?? Is it trying to say that there is a US influencer who influences other like-minded snatchers of baby wombats? Or merely that there is a particular US influencer who once or regularly snatched or snatches a baby wombat or several baby wombats?

[oddoneout]

?? Is it trying to say that there is a US influencer who influences other like-minded snatchers of baby wombats? Or merely that there is a particular US influencer who once or regularly snatched or snatches a baby wombat or several baby wombats?

To answer your questions:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/mar/13/sam-jones-us-influencer-baby-wombat-stolen-from-mother-ntwnfb

Disappointingly it was an adult who did the snatching; a baby human and a baby wombat tussle would have provided a rather different outcome I suspect.

[Serial_Apologist]

To answer your questions:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/mar/13/sam-jones-us-influencer-baby-wombat-stolen-from-mother-ntwnfb

Disappointingly it was an adult who did the snatching; a baby human and a baby wombat tussle would have provided a rather different outcome I suspect.

A "joey" used to mean something else, where I came from.