Pedants' Paradise

[smittims]

I think the attribution may be because it's the sort of thing Churchill would have said . He was noted for his preference for plain english,e.g re-naming the Local Defence Volunteers the Home Guard . LDV is a sort of 'Civil Service' title. It;s unambiguous and describes its object concisely and accurately. 'Home Guard' on the other hand is vague: it could mean lots of things : a new type of door-lock, a fire-safety apparatus,etc. But it's more populist and inspiring.

Sadly this trend was imitated less effectively in my view by a more recent Prime Minister. I especially disliked 'Stay Home ' and 'Get Brexit Done' : ugly English in my opinion. . .

[Roger Webb]

a learned note from the lexicographer ben zimmer on the attribution (or misattribution) to churchill; and the various forms the quotation took:

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/langu...es/001715.html

'never!'

[LMcD]

It looks as though 'in the ascendancy' is now preferred to 'in the ascendant.'

[smittims]

I'd find it hard to argue agianst that. One could say that as 'ascendancy' is a noun it makes sense there. 'Ascendant' is an adjective, although those of us who were brought up on 19th-century poetry ('O thou transcendant') know that the noun is understood or elided ('in the ascendant form (or phase)') and to look down on those who weren't seems snobby these days. But I'm sure people who say 'ascendancy' are just copying soemone else, which is how we got 'amphorous ', 'mischeevious' and 'nucular'. .

[vinteuil]

It looks as though 'in the ascendancy' is now preferred to 'in the ascendant.'

... for some 'the ascendancy' has one primary meaning -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Ascendancy

I think 'in the ascendant' in all ways preferable...
.

[Padraig]

... for some 'the ascendancy' has one primary meaning -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Ascendancy

I think 'in the ascendant' in all ways preferable...
.

Far be it from me. . . but, Yes, vinteuil.

[french frank]

'Ascendant' is a verb

Ascendant (noun): Astrology. The point of the ecliptic, or degree of the zodiac, which at any moment (esp. at the birth of a child) is just rising above the eastern horizon; the horoscope. the house of the ascendant includes 5 degrees of the zodiac above this point and 25 below it. the lord of the ascendant: any planet within the house of the ascendant. (The ascendant and its lord were supposed to exercise a special influence upon the life of a child then born.)

[gurnemanz]

Ascendant (noun): Astrology. The point of the ecliptic, or degree of the zodiac, which at any moment (esp. at the birth of a child) is just rising above the eastern horizon; the horoscope. the house of the ascendant includes 5 degrees of the zodiac above this point and 25 below it. the lord of the ascendant: any planet within the house of the ascendant. (The ascendant and its lord were supposed to exercise a special influence upon the life of a child then born.)

I have never thought about this but if I say either version it would probably be 'in the ascendancy", probably because that is what one seems to hear most often. I can see from the above that, it is, strictly speaking, wrong. "Ascendancy" might have taken over because people are unaware of the astrological analogy and because it sounds more like a noun than "ascendant", which obviously is a noun but one derived from an adjective.

[LMcD]

I have never thought about this but if I say either version it would probably be 'in the ascendancy", probably because that is what one seems to hear most often. I can see from the above that, it is, strictly speaking, wrong. "Ascendancy" might have taken over because people are unaware of the astrological analogy and because it sounds more like a noun than "ascendant", which obviously is a noun but one derived from an adjective.

I always thought that one was 'in the ascendant' until ascendancy was achieved.

[smittims]

Anyway, I meant 'adjective'! I've corrected my post.

[french frank]

Anyway, I meant 'adjective'! I've corrected my post.

In English it largely depends how a word is used in a particular context as in boys school (v. boys' school). Boys is used adjectivally to describe the kind or nature of the school. An adjective is an added 'name' from Greek ἐπίθετον ὄνομα: hence the alternative word 'epithet'.

[Padraig]

In English it largely depends how a word is used in a particular context as in boys school (v. boys' school). Boys is used adjectivally to describe the kind or nature of the school. An adjective is an added 'name' from Greek ἐπίθετον ὄνομα: hence the alternative word 'epithet'.

Point of information. While agreeing with the explanation that boys is used adjectively, and therefore boys school is perfectly correct, cannot boys' also be used adjectively and correct? A school of boys v a school for boys?

[Pulcinella]

Point of information. While agreeing with the explanation that boys is used adjectively, and therefore boys school is perfectly correct, cannot boys' also be used adjectively and correct? A school of boys v a school for boys?

But it's not possessive, is it?
It doesn't BELONG to the boys.
That's why (I suppose) it's OK to see Visitors Car Park and suchlike.

[french frank]

But it's not possessive, is it? It doesn't BELONG to the boys.

That would be my view. The apostrophe in these cases would indicate possession rather than omission (as in I'm, he's, don't).

[Padraig]

That would be my view. The apostrophe in these cases would indicate possession rather than omission (as in I'm, he's, don't).

'The boys' school' could be translated as 'The school of the boys,' thus fulfilling the possessive function of the apostrophe, but also indicating a genitive case?