Pedants' Paradise

[oddoneout]

What about ‘please select from the above options’? That seems fairly normal.

Or, with reference to the original source of irritation, 'select from the options below'. Looking again at your suggestion perhaps gives the clue to why the 'below' version arose, since it is in effect the same construction - 'above/below options' rather than 'options above/below', so in due course will seem as normal as 'above options', although that isn't one I favour.

[Sir Velo]

‘Then you should say what you mean,’ the March Hare went on. ‘I do,’ Alice hastily replied; ‘at least—at least I mean what I say—that's the same thing, you know.’ ‘Not the same thing a bit!’ said the Hatter. ‘Why, you might just as well say that “I see what I eat” is the same thing as “I eat what I see!” ’

[french frank]

I've come to avoid metaphors if I can ; I think they've become a little overdone and too far-fetched these days.

smittims dixit: "I'll give that a miss [US college slang 1819-1852] [...] Poor Roy Plomley would turn in his grave [1888 Jefferson might turn in his grave if he knew of such an attempt to introduce European distinctions of rank into his democracy.] [...]"

I rest my case [1744 Chiefly US law].

[smittims]

I try always to say clearly what I mean. I've come to avoid metaphors if I can ; I think they've become a little overdone and too far-fetched these days.

[french frank]

I dislike 'no-brainer'. But then I dislike many fashionable phrases [...]

Presumably you dislike them because they're 'fashionable' or new to you? And yet - I'd guess - you will regularly use once-fashionable phrases because by the time you encountered them they were already established in contemporay usage?

[Pulcinella]

I don't think that changes things; what follows will(should) make it clear which version of 'before' is being used - time or place.

True, but 'in front of' avoids that potential ambiguity, which is why I much prefer it.

[oliver sudden]

I don't have an issue with 'before' in that sentence; its meaning as 'in front of' is still widely used and, taking fewer letters and therefore space may be an advantage.
I do share your irritation at the pointless misplacing of 'below' in the option selection example. It always looks like an uncorrected schoolchild error to me. It's the kind of thing that I see increasingly in personal replies from businesses etc, and I'm sure comes mainly from from people who are too young to have gone through the 'don't correct, it curbs creativity' phase of schooling. In theory AI should help correct that but if it's learning from such material in the first place the errors will just become even more embedded.

What about ‘please select from the above options’? That seems fairly normal.

[oddoneout]

But what if they congregated before St Peter's suddenly got blown up (perish the thought) or got floodlit in a laser light show?

I don't think that changes things; what follows will(should) make it clear which version of 'before' is being used - time or place.

[Pulcinella]

I don't have an issue with 'before' in that sentence; its meaning as 'in front of' is still widely used and, taking fewer letters and therefore space may be an advantage.
I do share your irritation at the pointless misplacing of 'below' in the option selection example. It always looks like an uncorrected schoolchild error to me. It's the kind of thing that I see increasingly in personal replies from businesses etc, and I'm sure comes mainly from from people who are too young to have gone through the 'don't correct, it curbs creativity' phase of schooling. In theory AI should help correct that but if it's learning from such material in the first place the errors will just become even more embedded.

But what if they congregated before St Peter's suddenly got blown up (perish the thought) or got floodlit in a laser light show?

[oddoneout]

I don't like 'before' in this (maybe I should be posting on the Grumble thread!):



And while I'm at it, I don't like 'below' (rather than following) in phrases such as
Please select from the below options.

I don't have an issue with 'before' in that sentence; its meaning as 'in front of' is still widely used and, taking fewer letters and therefore space may be an advantage.
I do share your irritation at the pointless misplacing of 'below' in the option selection example. It always looks like an uncorrected schoolchild error to me. It's the kind of thing that I see increasingly in personal replies from businesses etc, and I'm sure comes mainly from from people who are too young to have gone through the 'don't correct, it curbs creativity' phase of schooling. In theory AI should help correct that but if it's learning from such material in the first place the errors will just become even more embedded.

[LMcD]

But aren't we all going to die?

I'm no expert, but that's always been my understanding of the situation. Doc Martin regularly told his more anxious patients: 'Yes, you're going to die- but not yet'.

[smittims]

I dislike 'no-brainer'. But then I dislike many fashionable phrases such as:

Back in the day...
second-guess (why not just say 'guess'?)
A perfect storm (usually used to describe a most imperfect situation).

[Pulcinella]

I don't like 'before' in this (maybe I should be posting on the Grumble thread!):

As wellwishers gathered for a rosary prayer for Francis, 88, in the collonaded square before St Peter's Basilica, loudspeakers broadcast a brief message from the pontiff, who spoke in a broken and breathless voice — evidence of his weakened condition.

And while I'm at it, I don't like 'below' (rather than following) in phrases such as
Please select from the below options.

[Pulcinella]

Times headline:

Plant oils reduce risk of dying — while butter increases it

But aren't we all going to die?

[vinteuil]

Does anyone here object to the expression "no brainer"? I have managed to avoid using it, as it seems logical to me that a no brainer would have to have come from some being possessing no brain - as in fact I first read it when the expression first came into usage, and it was immiedately apparent it stood for the complete opposite of what I had assumed.

... Serial - it's worth holding in mind that 'logical' isn't usually a useful approach when it comes to grammar : language often works by analogy, but 'logic' (in our formal sense and use of the word) doesn't seem to be a primary underlying organising factor.

In this instance : "no brainer" = "you don't need a brain to work out that... "





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