Pedants' Paradise

[Serial_Apologist]

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... he doesn't just quote usage, he demonstrates over several paragraphs why the usage is reasonable and not inconsistent with how our language functions.

I am surprized to see Alpie using the Americanism 'ok' - still more to see him departing from normal form and expressing it in lower case.


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The Americanism would be "okay", surely?

[LezLee]

The Americanism would be "okay", surely?

I'm surprised to see Vinteuil using the American spelling of 'surprised'!

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm surprised to see Vinteuil using the American spelling of 'surprised'!

You will find there have been several discussions about the use of Z in certain words, Lez, the conclusion from which seemed to be that the Z is an older form which has been restored.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

You will find there have been several discussions about the use of Z in certain words, Lez, the conclusion from which seemed to be that the Z is an older form which has been restored.

- the emigrants from 17th Century England took the "z" spelling with them and preserved it whilst (some of) the English themselves lapsed in their spelling for a few centuries. Inspector Morse enthusiasts will recall that the uncovering of a murderer in The Ghost in the Machine was in part due to the scoundrel's spelling "realize" incorrectly (ie with an "s"). Morse's disdain was palpable.

But the irritating "Grammarly", based in San Fransisco dislikes "surprize" - so it is incorrect to refer to this spelling as "American".

[Bryn]

- the emigrants from 17th Century England took the "z" spelling with them and preserved it whilst (some of) the English themselves lapsed in their spelling for a few centuries. Inspector Morse enthusiasts will recall that the uncovering of a murderer in The Ghost in the Machine was in part due to the scoundrel's spelling "realize" incorrectly (ie with an "s"). Morse's disdain was palpable.

But the irritating "Grammarly", based in San Fransisco dislikes "surprize" - so it is incorrect to refer to this spelling as "American".

My understanding is that the substitution of "s" for "z" was a French import.

Grammarly reports itself as a misspelling. On surprise/surprise/suprise is has this to say:

Surprise is the correct way to spell the word.
Surprize was once an alternative spelling, but it’s very rarely used today.
Suprise is not an acceptable way to spell surprise.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

My understanding is that the substitution of "s" for "z" was a French import.

Yes - that rings a bell: coming over with Charles II???

[Andy Freude]

My understanding is that the substitution of "s" for "z" was a French import.

Yes and no. Verbs deriving from Greek with the -ίζειν termination (βαπτίζειν - to baptize), shifted to -ise (baptise) under the influence of French baptiser. Both are etymologically justifiable so it's a matter of preference which you use. Other words (of which 'surprise' is one) don't derive from Greek -ίζειν and the alternative with z seems to be merely a question of a spelling based on the spoken form: 'surprise' rhymes with 'prize', so 'must' be spelt with a z. But its origin is Latin via French, not Greek. One is therefore 'surprized' to see it spelt with a z. OUP which generally favours -ize over -ise, doesn't use 'surprize'. Not so much 'incorrect' as antiquated, and may sometimes be used for deliberate archaic effect. But linguistic borrowings at different times play havoc with 'rules', meaning that there are now 'usual spellings, 'unusual/non-standard spellings' and 'your spelling is as good as mine'.

[vinteuil]

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... I chuse to spell it 'surprize' coz that's the spellin' I find in Thos: Browne, de Foe, Dryden, Pope, Swift, Steele, Addison, Goldsmith, Miss Burney, Jane Austen &c.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surprize_(1780_ship)

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[Andy Freude]

... I chuse to spell it 'surprize' coz that's the spellin' I find in Thos: Browne, de Foe, Dryden, Pope, Swift, Steele, Addison, Goldsmith, Miss Burney, Jane Austen &c.

"and may sometimes be used for deliberate archaic effect". Similarly 'chuse', a 17th/18th c. spelling.

But 'coz' puzzles me.

[vinteuil]

"and may sometimes be used for deliberate archaic effect". Similarly 'chuse', a 17th/18th c. spelling.

But 'coz' puzzles me.

https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/coz

[ ... I'm only occasionally and erratically xviij century]



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[LezLee]

I use a site called Knitting Paradise, worldwide but mostly American. There are constant arguments/discussions about spelling and grammatical usage. There's one raging at the moment, after I queried the use of 'practice' as a verb. I was told that the Americans never use 'practise' at all. This seems to be true of other 'c', 's' and 'z' forms also.

[Serial_Apologist]

But 'coz' puzzles me.

Wagner's nickname for his missus.

[cloughie]

Wagner's nickname for his missus.

Idyllic!

[Oakapple]

Similar to ( = convergent, towards)//different from (= divergent, away from).

Simples.

Why do we say "opposite to" then?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Why do we say "opposite to" then?

Nice question - "Because opposites attract"?

Possibly something to do with the "position" element in the word - we can be "opposed to" something, but we can't be "similared to" or "differented from"?

(Actually, it's entirely possible that "similared" becomes a neologism - "we have undertaken a process in which our conflicting ideas can be similared"?! )