Pedants' Paradise

[Mal]

Hmmm. And I'd always mentally pronounced flybe fly-bee, but I suppose that might be Fly B.E.

Yes... But shouldn't you go "all the way" and think F-B-E? No one pronounces IBM "International BM", or BBC "British BC" - even though that might be appropriate given old repeats, John Humphrys and David Attenborough.

[Mal]

This thread should be re-titled, perhaps to "Pedant's Thread", or maybe "Pedant's Nook", if you must make use of potentially inexact metaphors for amusement's sake. In no way is it, or could be, a "Pedant's Paradise". One would not want it as "the ultimate abode of the justly pedantic", not when Wikipedia exists. There is no evidence that martyrs to pedantry are instantly transmitted here, and it's not an ideal place for pedantry as it lets the slipshod get away with far too much, even on radio 3, never mind everywhere else. Also bliss, rapture, delight, joy, and happiness do not appear to be found here, or (at least) should have more expression. I must admit a little frisson of joy when I found the proper pronunciation of "fly-be", or at least an example of expert usage, in the Independent video. So maybe a hint of paradise, but full blown paradise no, that will only come if said "expert" is shown to be wrong...

[french frank]

Yes... But shouldn't you go "all the way" and think F-B-E? No one pronounces IBM "International BM", or BBC "British BC" - even though that might be appropriate given old repeats, John Humphrys and David Attenborough.

I was actually wondering what the official pronunciations were. They must be regularly mentioned on the news (but I only read it).

This thread should be re-titled, perhaps to "Pedant's Thread", or maybe "Pedant's Nook", if you must make use of potentially inexact metaphors for amusement's sake. In no way is it, or could be, a "Pedant's Paradise". One would not want it as "the ultimate abode of the justly pedantic", not when Wikipedia exists. There is no evidence that martyrs to pedantry are instantly transmitted here, and it's not an ideal place for pedantry as it lets the slipshod get away with far too much, even on radio 3, never mind everywhere else. Also bliss, rapture, delight, joy, and happiness do not appear to be found here, or (at least) should have more expression. I must admit a little frisson of joy when I found the proper pronunciation of "fly-be", or at least an example of expert usage, in the Independent video. So maybe a hint of paradise, but full blown paradise no, that will only come if said "expert" is shown to be wrong...

Pedant.

[gurnemanz]

Pedant.

Appropriate one word response.

Pedants' Paradise is fine by me. The word "pedant" clearly has almost totally negative connotations in general usage, suggesting a small-minded devotion to an unnecessary level of precision or correctness. "Paradise" definitely suggests a place you would like to be. So the title does contain piquant contradictions. On the one hand, this is a place for pitiable people who actually enjoy embracing something negative. On the other hand, this is a place for laudable people who think that a devotion to precision of utterance and correctness is not negative, ie pedantry is good and a place where it is discussed must also be good - a paradise.

However, paradoxically, even as someone who spent his entire professional life teaching grammar, ie the application of rules to utterance, I am also happy to accept that rules are made to be broken. (See discussion on Romantics elsewhere on here).

[french frank]

Appropriate one word response.

Pedants' Paradise is fine by me. The word "pedant" clearly has almost totally negative connotations in general usage, suggesting a small-minded devotion to an unnecessary level of precision or correctness. "Paradise" definitely suggests a place you would like to be. So the title does contain piquant contradictions. On the one hand, this is a place for pitiable people who actually enjoy embracing something negative. On the other hand, this is a place for laudable people who think that a devotion to precision of utterance and correctness is not negative, ie pedantry is good and a place where it is discussed must also be good - a paradise.

However, paradoxically, even as someone who spent his entire professional life teaching grammar, ie the application of rules to utterance, I am also happy to accept that rules are made to be broken. (See discussion on Romantics elsewhere on here).

(And Mal too!)

[vinteuil]

However, paradoxically, even as someone who spent his entire professional life teaching grammar, ie the application of rules to utterance, I am also happy to accept that rules are made to be broken.

... perhaps not that much of a paradox. I find that those who have the greatest knowledge of 'grammar' (in its fullest sense, a real understanding of the workings, history, and uses of languages) are those most accepting of the reasons why 'rules' (establisht by those who know less) are open to interpretation and 'breaking'.

.

[Mal]

ie

Really?

To describe some particular location as "a paradise" is surely to expect some grandeur in the place so described, which was why I suggested to replacing "paradise" by "nook" in the title. To me, "nook" conjures up an image of a pleasant corner of a (formerly) smoky pub where pitiable/laudable people hang out. But I'm not certain "nook" will conjure up this image for others, which is why I suggested "thread" as the preferred option.

[french frank]

a pleasant corner of a (formerly) smoky pub where pitiable/laudable people hang out.

Isn't that The Snug?

[kernelbogey]

From the OP:

A thread for all Members who enjoy being pedantic, about any subject at all.

[french frank]

From the OP:

A thread for all Members who enjoy being pedantic, about any subject at all.

Also OED Paradise: Extended use 'A place or region of surpassing beauty or delight, or of supreme bliss. Now also: a peaceful unspoilt place. '

That's here, isn't it?

[kernelbogey]

Also OED Paradise: Extended use 'A place or region of surpassing beauty or delight, or of supreme bliss. Now also: a peaceful unspoilt place. '

That's here, isn't it?

A book of verse, a flask of wine
And thou, beside me singing in the wilderness:
And wilderness is Paradise enow.

[Mal]

"Enow" is archaic, should we not be translating it into "enough"?

"These words are no longer in everyday use or have lost a particular meaning in current usage but are sometimes used to impart an old-fashioned flavour to historical novels, for example, or in standard conversation or writing just for a humorous effect. Some, such as bedlam, reveal the origin of their current meaning..." - Oxford Dictionaries https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/ex...archaic-words/

The archaism here wasn't funny, so I don't see any excuse for it.

Another possible title: "Pedants Bedlam".

[french frank]

A book of verse, a flask of wine
And thou, beside me singing in the wilderness:
And wilderness is Paradise enow.

Is that the Edward Fitzgerald translation? I remembered it rather differently, but I suppose I'll have go downstairs and read the whole poem to find out what I was remembering.

[Padraig]

Another possible title: "Pedants Bedlam".

I think, Mal, that the originator of this thread would have considered his words carefully at the outset. I know that I would be slow to gainsay him, but being someone who has appreciated this thread since it began, I would certainly enjoy witnessing a good pedantic joust.

[Mal]

Is that the Edward Fitzgerald...

FitzGerald

I suggest FitzGerald should never be quoted here, he is anathema to pedants; many of his verses are paraphrases, and some cannot be confidently traced to his source material at all. Instead we should turn to the literal prose translation of Edward Heron-Allen:

I desire a little ruby wine and a book of verses,
Just enough to keep me alive, and half a loaf is needful;
And then, that I and thou should sit in a desolate place
Is better than the kingdom of a sultan.