Pedants' Paradise

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  • Serial_Apologist
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 37814

    Aha! Many thanks, vints, Bryn and ferney.

    Comment

    • french frank
      Administrator/Moderator
      • Feb 2007
      • 30456

      Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
      (I don't recall encountering it before this week, either.)
      It's been around more or less since the beginning of the Mueller investigation. Trump furious because he thought Sessions was 'his man' and could be relied upon to do his master's bidding. Sessions, having been a Trump loyalist, went native and became an honourable man …

      I hadn't realised the word was mainly U.S. I suppose it's etymologically related to excuse.

      Just remembered: Trump said he wouldn't have appointed him as AG if he'd known Sessions was going to do that. Um …
      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

      Comment

      • Pabmusic
        Full Member
        • May 2011
        • 5537

        Originally posted by french frank View Post
        It's been around more or less since the beginning of the Mueller investigation. Trump furious because he thought Sessions was 'his man' and could be relied upon to do his master's bidding. Sessions, having been a Trump loyalist, went native and became an honourable man …

        I hadn't realised the word was mainly U.S. I suppose it's etymologically related to excuse.

        Just remembered: Trump said he wouldn't have appointed him as AG if he'd known Sessions was going to do that. Um …
        I imagine it's ultimately from the same root as 'recusant', which was well known in Elizabeth's day. Seemingly from the Latin recusant - the sate of 'refusing,’ from the verb recusare. It denoted those who clung on to Catholicism. Under Elizabeth's rule they generally had to pay a fine annually.

        Comment

        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
          Gone fishin'
          • Sep 2011
          • 30163

          Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
          I imagine it's ultimately from the same root as 'recusant', which was well known in Elizabeth's day. Seemingly from the Latin recusant - the sate of 'refusing,’ from the verb recusare. It denoted those who clung on to Catholicism. Under Elizabeth's rule they generally had to pay a fine annually.
          Which they had to give to the Recuse Collector.
          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

          Comment

          • Pabmusic
            Full Member
            • May 2011
            • 5537

            Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
            Which they had to give to the Recuse Collector.
            Only if they had the right bins.

            Comment

            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
              Gone fishin'
              • Sep 2011
              • 30163

              Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
              Only if they had the right bins.
              Yes - Venial Bins and Mortal Bins.
              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

              Comment

              • Pabmusic
                Full Member
                • May 2011
                • 5537

                Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                Yes - Venial Bins and Mortal Bins.
                But never a cardinal bin (I suppose they'd be red).

                Comment

                • verismissimo
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 2957

                  I believe that recuse/recusant is an example of usage in Britain dying out, but being kept current in the USA. There are lots of examples of this, and I expect that one will come to mind in due course …

                  Comment

                  • Pabmusic
                    Full Member
                    • May 2011
                    • 5537

                    Originally posted by verismissimo View Post
                    I believe that recuse/recusant is an example of usage in Britain dying out, but being kept current in the USA. There are lots of examples of this, and I expect that one will come to mind in due course …
                    Fall = autumn?; "I loaned her some money"?; normalcy?; "zee" (for zed)?; gotten?
                    Last edited by Pabmusic; 09-11-18, 09:15.

                    Comment

                    • gurnemanz
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 7405

                      Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
                      Fall = autumn?; "I loaned her some money"?; normalcy?; "zee" (for zed)?; gotten?
                      I couldn't really object to "gotten" which is the historical past participle which the British still use in the derivatives "forgotten" and "begotten" and the fossilised form "ill-gotten".

                      There again, I still remember a quote from Shakespeare's Antony and Cleo, umpteen years after learning it for A Level, in which Enobarbus sarcastically observes:
                      "That truth should be silent I had almost forgot".

                      Comment

                      • kernelbogey
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 5803

                        Originally posted by verismissimo View Post
                        I believe that recuse/recusant is an example of usage in Britain dying out, but being kept current in the USA. There are lots of examples of this, and I expect that one will come to mind in due course …
                        Aha! Synchronicity!

                        I am reading (in some cases rereading) Patrick O'Brian's novels about Captain Jack Aubrey RN and his surgeon, friend (and spy for the British) Dr Stephen Maturin, set in the (somewhat extended by O'Brian) Napoleonic Wars, i.e. circa 1800.

                        I have just come across this exchange between Stephen and his wife, talking about Jack:

                        Stephen: [Wray] is now acting as second secretary to the Admiralty during Sir John Barrow's illness. But he was in the Treasury some time ago, when Jack told him he cheated at cards, told him quite openly, in his candid naval way, at Willis's rooms.
                        Diana: Good God Stephen!You never told me... Did he call Jack out?
                        Stephen: He did not. I believe he is taking a safer course.
                        -The Ionian Mission, p 17

                        From my earlier reading, I know that what Diana means by 'Did he call Jack out?' is Did Wray challenge Jack to a duel to preserve his honour after a public insult?

                        O'Brian has a reputation for authenticity in his descriptions of historical naval life and action; I imagine that his use of historic colloquial language to be equally soundly based.

                        Now, we hear calling X out today - and I think this is relatively new, post #metoo - being used in the following manner (my made up words): 'He misled us on B****t, and I was pleased that the interviewer called him out on that'; or 'He's had a reputation for creepy behaviour with employees, and finally she's called him out publicly on his behaviour'.

                        I have not checked in the dictionaries but I find this fascinating.
                        Last edited by kernelbogey; 09-11-18, 09:58.

                        Comment

                        • french frank
                          Administrator/Moderator
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 30456

                          Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
                          I imagine it's ultimately from the same root as 'recusant' …
                          I'd forgotten that. It [recusant] would still be current among historians as a description of Catholics in earlier times who were potentially subject to execution. Apparently the -cusare part is from causa which I'm not entirely sure that I follow.
                          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                          Comment

                          • Pulcinella
                            Host
                            • Feb 2014
                            • 11062

                            Originally posted by french frank View Post
                            I'd forgotten that. It [recusant] would still be current among historians as a description of Catholics in earlier times who were potentially subject to execution. Apparently the -cusare part is from causa which I'm not entirely sure that I follow.
                            The most renowned recusant from our (R3 Forum) perspective might well be William Byrd.

                            Comment

                            • french frank
                              Administrator/Moderator
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 30456

                              Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                              The most renowned recusant from our (R3 Forum) perspective might well be William Byrd.
                              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                              Comment

                              • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                                Gone fishin'
                                • Sep 2011
                                • 30163

                                Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post
                                I couldn't really object to "gotten" which is the historical past participle which the British still use in the derivatives "forgotten" and "begotten" and the fossilised form "ill-gotten".

                                There again, I still remember a quote from Shakespeare's Antony and Cleo, umpteen years after learning it for A Level, in which Enobarbus sarcastically observes:
                                "That truth should be silent I had almost forgot".
                                ... to say nothing of hobby-horses.
                                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                                Comment

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