Pedants' Paradise

[Lat-Literal]

I imagine non-English speakers are inclined to copy what they hear without necessarily getting the usage correct.

Yes, that is a part of it.

If I were being asked in a foreign language how I played, I'd find it easier to say good than well or beyond my wildest expectations.

Well, as well as a distraction offering people something other than the genuinely worrying to worry about, sport today epitomises the capitalist ethos, eg the myth of meritocracy that says the system freely allows anybody to get to the top through self-application. But, there would be no top to get to if everyone was free to get there, though merit or whatever means, because there would be no bottom or middle either. But they don't tell you that: you have to work it out for yourself, and risk being called a party pooper.

You are right.

I don't think I'd have enjoyed aspects of spectator sport half as much as I did - like everything else there are limits to interest especially with the passing of time - if I hadn't seen it as being in a somewhat different dimension. If there had been any sort of mental connection between, say, the Masters, and my hacking round a pitch and putt course, then there would have been no viewing of it. Instead, it was in the realm of approximate personalities, countries of origin, historical statistics, comparisons and contrasts with the establishment ways of Wimbledon, an assessment of the presenters and media coverage, the azaleas, colour, concepts and actual, and brief moments of genuine "what's going to happen next?" excitement. These days I tend to think, gawd, they are all multi-millionaires - hard to relate to - and also to be playing in those conditions, staying in hotel rooms, constantly travelling - how awful.

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes, that is a part of it.

If I were being asked in a foreign language how I played, I'd find it easier to say good than well or beyond my wildest expectations.

Are you all right with this, to my generational thinking, misuse of "good" - an adjective, not an adverb? I would never say "I'm good, thank you" to an enquiry as to my state of being; always "I'm well, thank you". Or even, "I'm beyond my wildest expectations".

[Lat-Literal]

Are you all right with this, to my generational thinking, misuse of "good" - an adjective, not an adverb? I would never say "I'm good, thank you" to an enquiry as to my state of being; always "I'm well, thank you". Or even, "I'm beyond my wildest expectations".

Not especially. I have been known to - but the part that others wouldn't see is the accompanying thought in my head that there is something quite close to irony in my use of that "Americany" slang. It would only be selected if I was with sporty, slangy sorts of people to make them or me feel more at ease. I am not sure which. Probably me - an attempt at seeming clubbable to me. I would expect it to be just assumed by them rather than being analysed. Not that I am in that area more than once in a blue moon or ever have been.



On further reflection - this probably sounds awful - I have used it with Jamaicans. When younger, my thought was always that they would see me both as lightweight and as yet another white person who was going to be remote. But I smiled a lot, talked a lot and listened a lot plus I had a very positive Jamaican figure in my very young past. So it was an ice breaker for me to get beyond what I perceived would be the perception of my appearance and bring out me. That was always a surprise all round. There was an unusually natural connection there.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Are you all right with this, to my generational thinking, misuse of "good" - an adjective, not an adverb? I would never say "I'm good, thank you" to an enquiry as to my state of being; always "I'm well, thank you". Or even, "I'm beyond my wildest expectations".

When people respond in this way, I'm tempted to say, "I was asking about your well-being, not your state of moral conduct."

[Serial_Apologist]

Not especially. I have been known to - but the part that others wouldn't see is the accompanying thought in my head that there is something quite close to irony in my use of that "Americany" slang. It would only be selected if I was with sporty, slangy sorts of people to make them or me feel more at ease. I am not sure which. Probably me - an attempt at seeming clubbable to me. I would expect it to be just assumed by them rather than being analysed. Not that I am in that area more than once in a blue moon or ever have been.



On further reflection - this probably sounds awful - I have used it with Jamaicans. When younger, my thought was always that they would see me both as lightweight and as yet another white person who was going to be remote. But I smiled a lot, talked a lot and listened a lot plus I had a very positive Jamaican figure in my very young past. So it was an ice breaker for me to get beyond what I perceived would be the perception of my appearance and bring out me. That was always a surprise all round. There was an unusually natural connection there.

You were very lucky to get acquainted with someone of different ethnicity at an early age iimss Lat. People tended to look askance at blacks coming to live in the district of S Kensington where I was brought up in the 1950s. Two Jamaican women opened a hairdressers where black women would go and have their hair waved in the manner of the Supremes; one day my mother and I were passing by as one of the proprietesses was sweeping the pavement outside, and a white woman stopped by and asked her, in that horrendously supercilous voice you still hear on "Made in Chelsea", "Excuse me, do you do ordinary people's hair?" The dreadful thing was, everyone laughed whenever my mother related this story, and, as with so much of what we regard as so obviously objectionable today, one went along with it being funny, unquestioningly, at the time

[Serial_Apologist]

When people respond in this way, I'm tempted to say, "I was asking about your well-being, not your state of moral conduct."

[Lat-Literal]

You were very lucky to get acquainted with someone of different ethnicity at an early age iimss Lat. People tended to look askance at blacks coming to live in the district of S Kensington where I was brought up in the 1950s. Two Jamaican women opened a hairdressers where black women would go and have their hair waved in the manner of the Supremes; one day my mother and I were passing by as one of the proprietesses was sweeping the pavement outside, and a white woman stopped by and asked her, in that horrendously supercilous voice you still hear on "Made in Chelsea", "Excuse me, do you do ordinary people's hair?" The dreadful thing was, everyone laughed whenever my mother related this story, and, as with so much of what we regard as so obviously objectionable today, one went along with it being funny, unquestioningly, at the time

Yes.....erm, not sure how to respond.

A black woman teacher in an all white school except for one black boy called Desmond - you know this I am sure because I've mentioned it umpteen times - she had a very profound effect for all sorts of reasons I won't go into here - she and I wrote to each other when she went to Trinidad after 1970. I was 7. Her husband, nice man, was in the High Commission. He's on the second link with her here. It is quite possible that they returned to the UK before going back to Jamaica in the mid 1980s. I was thrilled when I found them on the internet.

http://www.angelfire.com/wi/stc/images/Carmita2.gif

http://www.angelfire.com/wi/stc/STCTeam.htm

We also had two elderly Dutch Sri Lankan sisters in our road with whom I was close from early 1969 and a decent sort of businessman from Goa, although he was not for discussing his background, who had a senior role in the film industry* : all of this was unusual - I don't recall seeing anyone else who was non white in the neighbourhood at that time. It is an odd straddling of the political correctness line, this, but I miss those times for the positive distinctiveness of these people. Now we are all one and so many it's less human and more bland.

*Apparently, until 2000, 26 years at UIP, the distribution partnership of Paramount Pictures, Universal Pictures and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, and ultimately vice president of international sales and development, who was credited, among other things, with bringing the Hindi version of Jurassic Park to a new audience. I never knew that. What a marvel the internet can be!

[Angle]

... or perhaps to mis/quote from Christopher Fry: " I am as well as a man can be, who must carry his body around for its sentimental value." Always add a "Thank you", too.

[french frank]

... or perhaps to mis/quote from Christopher Fry: " I am as well as a man can be, who must carry his body around for its sentimental value." Always add a "Thank you", too.

[Padraig]

The Apostrophe Strikes Back - a hit at the Oscar's.

[Andrew353w]

I've just bought a copy of "Fowler's Modern Concise English Usage" (from a branch of Waterstones!) and it's a great book to dip into (into which it is great to dip, if we're being grammatically correct!) for hundreds of grammatical errors made by most of us, on a daily basis! What it has to say about the word "closure" is excellent; starting with the phrase "how times change............" Well worth a tenner, if only to dip into when reading contributions to this thread! Finding a copy in a charity shop would make it an obligatory purchase!

[french frank]

I have two copies - Fowler's Modern English Usage 2nd edition and Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage 4th edition (large rather than concise). As you say, it is good to dip into, and the modern version discusses the current usages such as are mentioned here.

I've just bought a copy of "Fowler's Modern Concise English Usage" (from a branch of Waterstones!) and it's a great book to dip into (into which it is great to dip, if we're being grammatically correct!) for hundreds of grammatical errors made by most of us, on a daily basis! What it has to say about the word "closure" is excellent; starting with the phrase "how times change............" Well worth a tenner, if only to dip into when reading contributions to this thread! Finding a copy in a charity shop would make it an obligatory purchase!

[Richard Tarleton]

The Apostrophe Strikes Back - a hit at the Oscar's.

and she has an English degree.....

[Serial_Apologist]

and she has an English degree.....

The other morning I heard an Oxford University professor talking in terms of "different than" in relation to the current dispute!

[Lat-Literal]

Why is contactless called contactless when the card comes into contact with the machine?