Pedants' Paradise

[jean]

I imagine that it isn't formed on the analogy of hilaritas and caritas, since there was no word precaritas.

But if there had been a word precaritas, we'd presumably have borrowed it straight and there'd be no need for analogy!

It seems to share the formation of later inventions like secretariat < secretariatus and commissariat < commissariatus which denoted particular classes of people.

But we began by talking about precarity, not precariat. I hadn't come across precariat (or if I had, I'd forgotten). Do we know whether one was derived from the other, or which of the two came first?

[edit] I see that Wiki gives a first use for precarity as early as 1952:

"True poverty is rare ... Nowadays communities are good, I am sure, but they are mistaken about poverty. They accept, admit on principle, poverty, but everything must be good and strong, buildings must be fireproof, Precarity is rejected everywhere, and precarity is an essential element of poverty. That has been forgotten. Here we want precarity in everything except the church. ... Precarity enables us to help very much the poor. When a community is always building, and enlarging, and embellishing, which is good in itself, there is nothing left over for the poor. We have no right to do this as long as there are slums and breadlines somewhere."

— Anonymous Martinican priest, as quoted by Dorothy Day, The Catholic Worker, May 1952

.

[french frank]

But we began by talking about precarity, not precariat. I hadn't come across precariat (or if I had, I'd forgotten). Do we know whether one was derived from the other, or which of the two came first?

I did, admittedly, assume that when she used 'precarity' she did mean 'precarity' in its modern sociological sense - being the condition of the precariat - rather than some spontaneous alternative for precariousness. Proletariat was, of course, the word I was seeking after rather than commissariat or secretariat.

That seemed to me to explain the use better than imagining an analogical form based on caritas which seemed to require another (subconscious?) analogical form 'precaritas'. Ockham's razor.

[jean]

Identifying what a word is derived from tells you nothing about its form.

Both 'precarity' and 'precariat' come from 'precarious'. 'Precariat' was formed by analogy with words such as 'proletariat' and 'precarity' by analogy with words ending in '-ity' on the pattern of so many that have Latin originals.

This is true whichever of the two came first.

[french frank]

Identifying what a word is derived from tells you nothing about its form.

Both 'precarity' and 'precariat' come from 'precarious'. 'Precariat' was formed by analogy with words such as 'proletariat' and 'precarity' by analogy with words ending in '-ity' on the pattern of so many that have Latin originals.

This is true whichever of the two came first.

It is. I didn't query which of the two came first. I assumed that logically it would have been precariat - the portmanteau of precarious and proletariat, which then required its own abstract noun - related in meaning to precariat (and for sociologists an obvious lack). Precarity before precariat would not have had any obvious sociological sense, and would just have looked like a neological doublet for precariousness.

[jean]

But had 'precariat' already been coined in 1952? Do we know?

Because if it hadn't, there's no point in arguing that logically it should have been!

[Lat-Literal]

Stephen Sackur who is not any ordinary broadcaster - "ad-VUR-ser-ee" - twice - and "leVVerage" twice. Most people on the radio are now saying "leVVerage". An ex senior Civil Servant with a partisan point to make chooses "humongous". Was he ever neutral? I'm not concerned if they are considered right or wrong. All are awful - and barely English.

(Have just realised that this could have been put on the pronunciation thread - sorry!)

[jean]

Does anyone know of an earlier instance of the phrase alternative facts than Kellyanne Conway's?

[vinteuil]

[edit] I see that Wiki gives a first use for precarity as early as 1952:

"True poverty is rare ... Nowadays communities are good, I am sure, but they are mistaken about poverty. They accept, admit on principle, poverty, but everything must be good and strong, buildings must be fireproof, Precarity is rejected everywhere, and precarity is an essential element of poverty. That has been forgotten. Here we want precarity in everything except the church. ... Precarity enables us to help very much the poor. When a community is always building, and enlarging, and embellishing, which is good in itself, there is nothing left over for the poor. We have no right to do this as long as there are slums and breadlines somewhere."

— Anonymous Martinican priest, as quoted by Dorothy Day, The Catholic Worker, May 1952

.

... a 'Martinican priest" - does this mean a priest from the French département of Martinique? In the which case perhaps 'precarity' here is no more than a bad 'translation' of the French précarité , ie precariousness, rather than an early use of the specific jargon word as used by sociologists?

[jean]

Interesting! I did add a bit wondering whether a priest from francophone Martinique might be thought to be not quite English enough, but I deleted it.

[Lat-Literal]

Does anyone know of an earlier instance of the phrase alternative facts than Kellyanne Conway's?

No but in these times of the unthinkable, I did ask myself whether American English could be copyrighted so as to prevent its use by international commercial competitors. Under current US law, copyright gives someone temporary control over a thing that they create, helping them profit from their work (while (if they want?) allowing everyone to eventually adapt, interpret, and even copy it). But "in no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work". According to intellectual property lawyer Brad Newberg, “if you're saying it's a language, what you're saying is "this is a series of facts and facts are not copyrightable.” Hah, but facts ain't what they used to be!

There is more. "You could also potentially trademark the name of a language. Oracle can’t stop people from writing in Java, but Newberg says it could stop another company from creating its own programming language and calling it "Java," on the grounds that it would confuse users into thinking it was an Oracle product. The Basic English Institute, which manages a simplified version of English with an 850-word vocabulary, warns that the language is copyrighted to prevent people from passing inferior or expanded variations off as the real thing. In the US at least, that "copyright" is likely symbolic, but a trademark could apply". This, I suppose, might lead to questions about the ability of the British in any necessary circumstances to trademark the name "English" and to support that trademark with reference to Un-American English. In fact, away from any hard-edged commercial considerations, what better way could there be of distinguishing English English from any other sort of English as a means of protecting an important aspect of heritage post truth?

http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/13/5998273/who-owns-a-language-wikipedia-palawa-kani-raises-old-debate

[french frank]

Does anyone know of an earlier instance of the phrase alternative facts than Kellyanne Conway's?

Wikipedia already has an article - but no 'history' attached.

[jean]

Someone found this.

[Lat-Literal]

Someone found this.

Interesting. The link includes the word "misspoke" which doesn't look at all right. It looks worse in capital letters. I had to write something of an environmental report yesterday. Headings were in capital letters which turned out to be rather unfortunate. Some words look misspelled in capitals. EMISSIONS. My word! Do people have any other examples?

[jean]

...The link includes the word "misspoke" which doesn't look at all right...

I rather like it! I suppose it looks odd because of the double s, and in its most recent incarnation with the suggestion that the speaker may have knowingly said something not true, it's 'chiefly US', but it's been around for centuries (thanks OED)

[jean]

Just happened on this:

In the audio, as in a previous Web version, we misstate Toronto lawyer Mitchell Wine's first name as Michael.