Pedants' Paradise

[Lat-Literal]

I'd often wondered what the connection was between the man's name and that of the club he manages...

It is an odd coincidence.

He is from Alsace which could have muddied the waters but clearly then his name is French.

... I wd suggest the only English wd be 'Arsenius', as in the Saint -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenius_the_Great

from wiki :

During the fifty-five years of his solitary life he was always the most meanly clad of all, thus punishing himself for his former seeming vanity in the world. In like manner, to atone for having used perfumes at court, he never changed the water in which he moistened the palm leaves of which he made mats, but only poured in fresh water upon it as it wasted, thus letting it become stenchy in the extreme. Even while engaged in manual labour he never relaxed in his application to prayer. At all times copious tears of devotion fell from his eyes. But what distinguished him most was his disinclination to all that might interrupt his union with God. When, after long search, his place of retreat was discovered, he not only refused to return to court and act as adviser to his former pupil, now Roman Emperor, Arcadius, but he would not even be his almoner to the poor and the monasteries of the neighbourhood. He invariably denied himself to visitors, no matter what their rank and condition and left to his disciples the care of entertaining them.

Saint Arsenius was a man who was very quiet and often silent, as evidenced by an adage of his: “Many times I spoke, and as a result felt sorry, but I never regretted my silence."

Excellent - many thanks.

And Arsenio......as in Rodriguez?

Luckily, I am not asking why Judi is spelt with an "i".

[french frank]

I'd often wondered what the connection was between the man's name and that of the club he manages...

I assumed that at some point in its history the football ground was close to an original armaments factory/store, like the Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal in Paris.

I'm not quite sure of the connection between the name Arsenius/Arsenios and Greek ἀρσενικός - arsenic (the Gk for masculine, male is ἀρρενικός but ἀρσενικός is an alternative form). Unless arsenic was used to make explosives?

[vinteuil]

wiki is helpful here, I think :

"The word arsenic has its origin in the Syriac word ܠܐ ܙܐܦܢܝܐ (al) zarniqa, from the Persian word زرنيخ zarnikh, meaning "yellow" (literally "gold-colored") and hence "(yellow) orpiment". It was adopted into Greek as arsenikon (ἀρσενικόν), a form that is folk etymology, being the neuter form of the Greek word arsenikos (ἀρσενικός), meaning "male", "virile". The Greek word was adopted in Latin as arsenicum, which in French became arsenic, from which the English word arsenic is taken. Arsenic sulfides (orpiment, realgar) and oxides have been known and used since ancient times. Zosimos (circa 300 AD) describes roasting sandarach (realgar) to obtain cloud of arsenic (arsenic trioxide), which he then reduces to metallic arsenic. As the symptoms of arsenic poisoning were somewhat ill-defined, it was frequently used for murder until the advent of the Marsh test, a sensitive chemical test for its presence. (Another less sensitive but more general test is the Reinsch test.) Owing to its use by the ruling class to murder one another and its potency and discreetness, arsenic has been called the "poison of kings" and the "king of poisons". "

The football team was I think previously known as Woolwich Arsenal, from its original home near the Royal Arsenal, wh took its name from the Italian, and ultimately Arabic word.






.

[vinteuil]

Luckily, I am not asking why Judi is spelt with an "i".

...well, her 'real' name is Judith, so why not?

[Sir Velo]

I assumed that at some point in its history the football ground was close to an original armaments factory/store, like the Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal in Paris.

A non football fan writes:

Actually no. However, Arsenal was originally known as the Woolwich Arsenal. It dropped the Woolwich when it moved to Highbury.

[french frank]

Yes, v helpful. But I'm now not sure whether it is or isn't a coincidence that realgar and orpiment were used in explosives:

Realgar: An ore of arsenic. Historically used as a pigment, depilatory, poison, ingredient in explosives and fireworks, ritualistic "medicine," cosmetic.

Orpiment: An ore of arsenic. Used in the production of oil cloth, semiconductors, photoconductors. Historically used as a pigment, poison, ingredient in fireworks and explosives.

Coincindence, I think

[french frank]

Actually no. However, Arsenal was originally known as the Woolwich Arsenal. It dropped the Woolwich when it moved to Highbury.

Don't you mean, Actually, yes?

"On 1 December 1886, munitions workers in Woolwich, South East London, formed Arsenal as Dial Square, with David Danskin as their first captain. Named after the heart of the Royal Arsenal complex, they took the name of the whole complex a month later."

And that was the start of the present Arsenal FC.

[vinteuil]

Coincindence, I think

:tears hair out emoticon:

OF COURSE it's a coincidence.

I have given you the Arabic root for Arsenal.

I have given you the Syriac / Persian roots for arsenic.


There is no connection.

[french frank]

:tears hair out emoticon:

OF COURSE it's a coincidence.

I have given you the Arabic root for Arsenal.

I have given you the Syriac / Persian roots for arsenic.


There is no connection.

Just run that past me again then, vints (Yes, I did take in your kindly provided derivations, but even so … )

[vinteuil]

Just run that past me again then, vints (Yes, I did take in your kindly provided derivations, but even so … )

I'm not sure what I can add.

Arsenal from Arabic dar-al-Sina'a ; house of art / industry
arsenic from Persian zarnikh ; gold/ yellow

And you are looking for a more-than-coincidental connection?

[gurnemanz]

All this reminds me of the recent coincidence in the German Bundesliga when Wolfgang Wolf was the manager of Wolfsburg.

[Sir Velo]

Don't you mean, Actually, yes?

"On 1 December 1886, munitions workers in Woolwich, South East London, formed Arsenal as Dial Square, with David Danskin as their first captain. Named after the heart of the Royal Arsenal complex, they took the name of the whole complex a month later."

And that was the start of the present Arsenal FC.

I took your question to mean whether the current ground's physical location had ever been adjacent to an arsenal, in which case the answer, I believe, was correctly given in the negative. :)

Apologies for being pedantic.

[visualnickmos]

All this reminds me of the recent coincidence in the German Bundesliga when Wolfgang Wolf was the manager of Wolfsburg.

.... and have you seen the speed at which he eats his dinner!

[vinteuil]

I took your question to mean whether the current ground's physical location had ever been adjacent to an arsenal, in which case the answer, I believe, was correctly given in the negative. :)

Apologies for being pedantic.

... not pedantic, but disingenuous. FF was quite clear -

I assumed that at some point in its history the football ground was close to an original armaments factory/store, like the Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal in Paris.

... so no wriggle room for you to claim she was referring to its current location.

[french frank]

I took your question to mean whether the current ground's physical location had ever been adjacent to an arsenal, in which case the answer, I believe, was correctly given in the negative. :)

Apologies for being pedantic.

Well, no, actually. I meant was the name of the club, Arsenal FC, to do with the fact that the club had (presumably when it was first named 'Arsenal') been somewhere close to an armaments factory or store; as the Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal had been near the site of the Paris Arsenal. In other words, I was looking for the explanation of the name.

But you are right (I presume) that the Highbury ground has never been adjacent to an arsenal, but neither does the name 'Highbury' explain why the club is called 'Arsenal'.

I think that probably squeezes every last drop of interest, real or imaginary, from the subject