Pedants' Paradise

[Bryn]

Hmm. Oh dear!

[umslopogaas]

Apologies if I have posted this before, this thread has been running a long time and I havent the patience to check 287 pages, but am I the last person on earth to notice that everyone, including the BBC, incorrectly uses "data" and "media"? We constantly hear "The media has portrayed ..." and "The data shows that ..." whereas it should be "have portrayed" and "show that". Data and media are plurals, the singulars are datum and medium.

Humph!

[Bryn]

It's only the yellow-brown tendency within 'the media' who fail to recognise this error. Scientists are more likely to use the terms correctly when presenting or being interviewed. It is the arts graduates who are most likely to be found at fault here.

[vinteuil]

... am I the last person on earth to notice that everyone, including the BBC, incorrectly uses "data" and "media"? We constantly hear "The media has portrayed ..." and "The data shows that ..." whereas it should be "have portrayed" and "show that". Data and media are plurals, the singulars are datum and medium.

Humph!

... if everyone uses this form, then it is the 'correct' form.

Historical use and etymology are unreliable guides to what shd be regarded as 'correct'.

But then, I write as an 'advanced pedant'...

[umslopogaas]

This is true and I shouldnt have said "everybody", because I dont, for one, and as Bryn says, scientists generally use "data" correctly and probably know how to use "media" as well. None the less, the misuse is very widespread.

[vinteuil]

This is true and I shouldnt have said "everybody", because I dont, for one, and as Bryn says, scientists generally use "data" correctly and probably know how to use "media" as well. None the less, the misuse is very widespread.

... I note you use the terms "correctly" and "misuse". Linguisticians and advanced pedants wd dispute your use of these terms. 'Media' and 'data' are now standardly used as singulars; such usage is therefore 'correct'. Not that 'correct' is a word I wd use in this sort of discussions...




.

[umslopogaas]

I think I am out-pedanted here, but if the plurals are used as singulars, what has happened to the singulars? If I have one datum unit (as I would say), is it not incorrect to call it a data unit? And I think surveyors still speak of a datum point in their use of theodolites?

Actually I am thoroughly confused, because though I speak of a datum unit, I would myself speak of a unit of data. Ye gods, and this is my first language, how must the Chinese view it?

[Pulcinella]

... I note you use the terms "correctly" and "misuse". Linguisticians and advanced pedants wd dispute your use of these terms. 'Media' and 'data' are now standardly used as singulars; such usage is therefore 'correct'. Not that 'correct' is a word I wd use in this sort of discussions...

Dictionaries (which of course report usage not necessarily correctness ) now give data as both a singular and a plural noun. At least my Chambers does!

[vinteuil]

I think I am out-pedanted here, but if the plurals are used as singulars, what has happened to the singulars? If I have one datum unit (as I would say), is it not incorrect to call it a data unit? And I think surveyors still speak of a datum point in their use of theodolites?

... worry not! Scientists and others can still happily use datum and medium as singular forms.

After all time was when 'peas' (from French pois) and 'cherries' (from French cerise) were both singular forms ( a peas, a cherries... ) - we 'incorrectly' created false singulars for them - a cherry, a pea - and no one was harmed in the process....

[umslopogaas]

Interesting ... my Chambers (1992 ed.) rather hedges its bets. Data is a plural noun, commonly treated as singular. But we are also told that the singular is datum. So it looks as you can pay yer money and take yer choice.

And Vinteuil, I didnt know that about peas and cherries. Obviously it would now sound very wrong to speak of a single cherries, hard to imagine when it was considered correct.

[french frank]

When will 'a phenomena' be acceptable?

Referendums is interesting because 'referenda' apparently has/have a slightly different nuance.

[vinteuil]

When will 'a phenomena' be acceptable?

Referendums is interesting because 'referenda' apparently has/have a slightly different nuance.

... shouldn't it be that 'referenda' is when several questions are put up for popular decision in one appeal, and 'referendums' when it is a case of more than one referendum, each referendum comprising one question?

[french frank]

... shouldn't it be that 'referenda' is when several questions are put up for popular decision in one appeal, and 'referendums' when it is a case of more than one referendum, each referendum comprising one question?

Indeed, that would be somewhat similar to 'agenda' which implies one document containing several topics to be discussed ('things that are to be done'). Agendas however would be used for several discrete documents. An agenda which contains only one topic would still, by usage and wont, be an agenda; though the single issue would itself be the agendum.

[vinteuil]

Indeed, that would be somewhat similar to 'agenda' which implies one document containing several topics to be discussed ('things that are to be done'). Agendas however would be used for several discrete documents. An agenda which contains only one topic would still, by usage and wont, be an agenda; though the single issue would itself be the agendum.

... but couldn't the single issue still be the 'agenda' (singular feminine rather than neuter plural) if we see it as 'res agenda' with the 'res' understood, implied, omitted...

[Pulcinella]

Criterion/criteria seems to be going the same way, sadly imho!
(Not bothered by data and media!)
I now quite often hear ’a criteria' mentioned (probably more spoken than written).