Pedants' Paradise

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • french frank
    Administrator/Moderator
    • Feb 2007
    • 29879

    Originally posted by mercia View Post
    the architectural feature is usually semi-circular in shape, like half a drum ?
    I toyed with that - but the earlier ones are semi-circular, the later (Gothic) ones are pointed.

    There are so many definitions, but a common area of meaning seems to be a hollow, cavity or space. If the earliest meaning was referring to anything hollow like this, struck to make a noise, later meanings (ear drum, architectural feature, zoological) perhaps took up the various physical attributes of the 'drum' without necessarily having anything to do with striking.

    A tympanum, of a medieval cathedral, for example, refers to the 'empty space' above the door itself but below the arch (of whatever shape) which was usually then filled with carvings.
    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

    Comment

    • LeMartinPecheur
      Full Member
      • Apr 2007
      • 4717

      I do feel that much elucidation about timpani is to be had from the 1st edition of Michael Kennedy's Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music:

      Timpani (It.). See Kettledrums.

      Kettledrum. See Timpani.



      I keep my early copy solely to be able to prove this one on demand
      I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!

      Comment

      • mangerton
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 3346

        Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
        ... ah, leading to one of my all-time favourite words : ullage


        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullage
        Yes! An excellent word indeed, which I first encountered during my days in the packaging industry. Some craven individuals, it must be said, preferred "head space".

        Comment

        • ardcarp
          Late member
          • Nov 2010
          • 11102

          Well, here's another word, 'curator'. Apparently it's being used outside its usual envelope [!] of museum and art gallery custodians and applied to almost anyone, according to an item on The Today Programme. That's the first I've heard of it, but then I lead a sheltered life. Apparently some guy from the U.S. has written a book called 'Curationism'. Not wishing to lose my pedantic credentials, however, I couldn't help noticing some person, whilst discussing the topic, using 'multiplicities'. Laugh?

          Morning news. Includes Sports Desk, Weather, Thought for the Day.


          Last item in the programme.

          Comment

          • muzzer
            Full Member
            • Nov 2013
            • 1186

            Whatever will Australian groundsmen make of all this?

            Comment

            • Eine Alpensinfonie
              Host
              • Nov 2010
              • 20562

              Originally posted by Sydney Grew View Post
              According to the O.E.D. there are now in English two separate concepts:

              1) tympanum (a singular noun, of which the plural is tympana): a drum or similar instrument; also a stretched membrane (as there is in one's ear if one has an ear); also the recessed face of a pediment. [Derived directly from Latin, and at one remove from Greek tympanon, of which the root is typtein to strike or beat.]

              2) timpani (a plural noun, lacking a singular in English; also spelled tympani): the kettledrums. [Derived directly from Italian, but of course from Latin at one remove.]

              But why kettledrums plural? Tonic dominant I suppose. Surely, though, orchestras have existed with only one kettledrum?
              Clearly the O.E.D. gets it wrong sometimes.

              Comment

              • french frank
                Administrator/Moderator
                • Feb 2007
                • 29879

                Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                Clearly the O.E.D. gets it wrong sometimes.
                I've lost track of this. What is it that the OED has 'got wrong'?
                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                Comment

                • gurnemanz
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 7353

                  Originally posted by Sydney Grew View Post
                  2) timpani (a plural noun, lacking a singular in English; also spelled tympani): the kettledrums. [Derived directly from Italian, but of course from Latin at one remove.]

                  But why kettledrums plural? Tonic dominant I suppose. Surely, though, orchestras have existed with only one kettledrum?
                  Wiki entry for timpani has a picture of Led Zeppelin drummer "with a timpano".

                  Comment

                  • Eine Alpensinfonie
                    Host
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 20562

                    Originally posted by french frank View Post
                    I've lost track of this. What is it that the OED has 'got wrong'?
                    That there isn't a singular version of "timpani".

                    Comment

                    • french frank
                      Administrator/Moderator
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 29879

                      Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                      That there isn't a singular version of "timpani".
                      Weren't you trusting what Mr Grew said? The online OED simply gives two shades of meaning:

                      "Etymology: < Italian, plural of timpano kettledrum (also used)

                      with pl. concord [Meaning you say: The timpani are, not the timpani is ff]

                      a) kettledrums

                      b) timpani-players, timpanists"

                      Last updated 1912

                      Something wrong there?
                      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                      Comment

                      • Pabmusic
                        Full Member
                        • May 2011
                        • 5537

                        Originally posted by Sydney Grew View Post
                        ...But why kettledrums plural? Tonic dominant I suppose. Surely, though, orchestras have existed with only one kettledrum?
                        I very much doubt it (though any particular piece might require just one drum). Kettle-drums entered European music in the middle ages, largely from Arab influence in the Crusades, and as far as I am aware were always in pairs. They came in various sizes, of which nakers were small and definitely plural (as the late Queen Mother once remarked to one of David Munrow's musicians, "You have a lovely pair"). The drum horses of the Household Cavalry are a relic of this and give a clue as to the origin of timpani [arabic naqqareh, mounted either side of a camel].

                        However, I have long referred to a single drum as a timpanum.

                        Here's Holbein drumming up money for an orchestra that's fallen on hard times (my technique exactly):

                        Last edited by Pabmusic; 29-04-15, 01:06.

                        Comment

                        • ardcarp
                          Late member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 11102

                          The world is coming to an end. Rado 4's political correspondent Norman Smith used the word 'hyperbole' on The Today Programme. Pronounced hyper-bowl.

                          Comment

                          • Don Petter

                            Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
                            The world is coming to an end. Rado 4's political correspondent Norman Smith used the word 'hyperbole' on The Today Programme. Pronounced hyper-bowl.
                            No hope it was about American sports?

                            Comment

                            • ardcarp
                              Late member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 11102

                              None.

                              Comment

                              • Don Petter

                                According to the BBC website, Prince Harry, on exercise in Australia in his run up to leaving the Army, has been 'working on ordinance disposal techniques'.

                                Must have heard about the political requirements back home?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X