Pedants' Paradise

[Pabmusic]

The journaists of the Telegrah seem to be somewhat superciliious, even demeaning and ignorant, and ought to be exposed as the charlatans they are.

Note the Oxford comma. The meaning is less clear if you don't use it.

[french frank]

I would have had 10/10 - but in view of all the comments here I inserted the O c. There are sentences where it makes the meaning more clear, but I don't think this is one and would normally omit it. I sacrificed 1/10 for a quiet life

[Serial_Apologist]

I would have had 10/10 - but in view of all the comments here I inserted the O c. There are sentences where it makes the meaning more clear, but I don't think this is one and would normally omit it. I sacrificed 1/10 for a quiet life

No polite pauses then for when someone's said their bit? Why is everybody in such a damned rush these days???

[Serial_Apologist]

"PPI may have been offered to you and I"

This is said in a very annoying ad, one which is being constantly repeated on telly. One wouldn't say "PPI may have been offered to I", now, would one?

[Pabmusic]

"PPI may have been offered to you and I"

This is said in a very annoying ad, one which is being constantly repeated on telly. One wouldn't say "PPI may have been offered to I", now, would one?

[Now that is a matter of grammar.]

[jean]

There is a theory that X-and-I has become a set phrase, and indeclinable whatever its function in the sentence.

[JFLL]

There is a theory that X-and-I has become a set phrase, and indeclinable whatever its function in the sentence.

It gets worse. It seems to have spread to Personal Pronoun + Noun Phrase, to judge from this in Steam Days:

'The author's second trip to Carlisle in July 1964 saw he and his friends depart from Edinburgh's erstwhile Caledonian station at Princes Street …' [pedant's query: Prince's Street or Princes' Street ?]

Not even his friends and he!

[jean]

Why bother inflecting pronouns for case when you haven't done it with nouns for centuries? That's what I want to know.

Either do the thing properly, or not at all.

[mangerton]

[pedant's query: Prince's Street or Princes' Street ?]

It was named for the two eldest sons of George III, for whom George Street is named. Originally it was called "Princes' Street, but the named changed in the 1830s. More information here, though I'd be inclined to ignore much of the ill informed comment.

Edinburgh's new town was laid out with George Street surrounded by Princes Street to the south, Queen St to the north, Charlotte Square named for the queen to the west, and St Andrew Square (patron saint) to the east.

[gurnemanz]

It gets worse. It seems to have spread to Personal Pronoun + Noun Phrase, to judge from this in Steam Days:

'The author's second trip to Carlisle in July 1964 saw he and his friends depart from Edinburgh's erstwhile Caledonian station at Princes Street …' [pedant's query: Prince's Street or Princes' Street ?]

Not even his friends and he!

Interestingly, in that sentence the man and his friends are both the object of the verb saw and the subject of the verb depart, so presumably either "he" or "him" is technically permissible, even if "he" sounds wrong.

English is odd in this kind of construction: I watched my friend eating a pizza. (Who is eating the pizza?)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

My mother had dementia for the last 10 years of her life. My sister and I made a book of photographs with captions to trigger her memory. I wrote the following sentence under a picture of her parents:

"My mother was six years older than my father, but always pretended to be four years younger than him."

One day, she read it to me:

"My mother was six years older than my father, but always pretended to be four years younger than he."

That put me in my place!

[jean]

Interestingly, in that sentence the man and his friends are both the object of the verb saw and the subject of the verb depart, so presumably either "he" or "him" is technically permissible, even if "he" sounds wrong.

'He' is wrong, because 'depart' is not a finite verb.

If you want a label I'd say it was an infinitive, and the consrtruction is similar to the Latin accusative & infinitive, common after verbs of thinking, knowing, perceiving. The whole thing is the object of the main verb. Sometimes the to is there, as in We know it to be true.

[gurnemanz]

'He' is wrong, because 'depart' is not a finite verb.

Of course, you're right. A late night lapse on my part.

[french frank]

Interestingly, in that sentence the man and his friends are both the object of the verb saw and the subject of the verb depart, so presumably either "he" or "him" is technically permissible, even if "he" sounds wrong.

He saw they depart?

Add: Gurnemanz got in just in time! :-)

[Serial_Apologist]

Is keeping options open not tautological? Keeping one's options would surely be tantamount to keeping them open, I would have thought.

Apologies if this one has already been raised.