BBC Young Musician - Brass

[BBMmk2]

Why Oh why do tuba players always play this piece? Ok, I kinow it' a classic etc, but there aree quite other concertos out there thatcould quite easily be suited for this occaision. I am a tuba payer, myself, so i think I should know!

[ardcarp]

BBM. Do you know the Andante for Tuba by Alexandre Tcherepnine ('a la memoire de mon cher pere'...sorry no accents)? A lovely lyrical piece with which to show off (a) the tuba in fine melodic mode and (b) the musical feeling of the player. The trouble is, the contestants seem to feel it necessary to play fiendishly difficult pieces (which the Tcherepnine isn't) to prove they've got a wizard technique.

[BBMmk2]

Which is what Hornspeiler was on about earlier!

Yes, ardcarp, Iolove that poiece. Lies so well for the tuba.

Why do these people who take part have to prove their skill by playing as many zillion black dots in a bar as possible? What is wrong with lkyricism?

[Hornspieler]

Bit harsh, HS. What was wrong with the VW "Romanza" from the Tube Concerto?

I thought the tuba player was outstanding but wouldn't take it away from the winner, who was clearly a knock-out - no doubt even more so live in the hall, where his generosity of sound combined with quality of tone probably marked him out more than through the mikes...

What was wrong was that all that clever playing and singing at the same time belongs in a Hoffnung Concert, not in a competition to determine the best musician.
Very clever and very well done but did not allow the performer to display a musical interpretation fitting to RVW's beautiful Romanza.

Only the winner put the music first and showmanship second.

HS

[Nick Armstrong]

Very clever and very well done but did not allow the performer to display a musical interpretation fitting to RVW's beautiful Romanza.

Don't quite follow... What or who "did not allow" him to do so? Did you think the 'Romanza' was not musically played by that young man?

[ardcarp]

What or who "did not allow" him to do so? Did you think the 'Romanza' was not musically played by that young man?

I agree there, Caliban. In fact I think the tuba player's programme (from what we saw on the box) was quite nicely judged compared with, say, the horn players' (both). I very much liked the humming/beat-box piece...great fun....and certainly one to show both technical ability and communication with the audience. OK, I'll admit that I played the tuba as well (about a zillion years ago) and I was dying for the lad to sit down especially in the VW. Hanging on to that lump of metal ain't easy. Marching along with a strap doing oompahs is one thing, but I felt he could have relaxed into the VW more in a conventional orchestral pose, i.e. seated.

[Hornspieler]

Message #21

Don't quite follow... What or who "did not allow" him to do so? Did you think the 'Romanza' was not musically played by that young man?

I would have preferred to hear him playing only what RVW wrote, rather than displaying his ability to play and sing at the same time - brilliantly done though that was. I felt that he was concentrating upon that, to the detriment of his musical (and emotional) interpretation.

HS

[BBMmk2]

Message #21

I would have preferred to hear him playing only what RVW wrote, rather than displaying his ability to play and sing at the same time - brilliantly done though that was. I felt that he was concentrating upon that, to the detriment of his musical (and emotional) interpretation.

HS

So he was mucking around which, esssentially is a beautiful piece of music, which does not need anything else domne to it. Just play the music as it is without all these fancey things going on!

[ardcarp]

HS I guess you must have done some of that humming stuff...I thought the technique was invented for horn players! What interested me was the comment of one of the judges (concerning the horn player) that she'd like to have heard 'some Beethoven'. I'm just wondering which particular piece of Beethoven she had in mind? I've got a big blank in my knowledge about Beethoven solo horn repertory. Can you suggest something?

[Tony Halstead]

There is indeed a 'sonata for pianoforte with horn' ( thus described on the title page) by the young Beethoven and a very 'worthy' and rather dull piece it is too...especially played by the lugubriously 'smoothed out' tones of the modern valve horn.
Beethoven reportedly accepted a commission for it from the most celebrated ( natural - valveless) horn player of the day, Punto. Then he forgot about it until he saw an advert the day before the concert.
He wrote out the horn part that night and in the concert next morning ( presumably without rehearsal) he improvised the piano part.

[Lateralthinking1]

I couldn't pick a winner. I was pleased though that the gimmicks of the tuba player, and to a lesser extent the player of the french horn, didn't win out. The beat boxing was all for the good but only at Glastonbury.

The pieces chosen were underwhelming. I tend to like brass but I only really enjoyed the Sonata for Trumpet and Piano by Stevens. I suppose the Vaughan Williams' Romanza was ok too.

Given the nerves, and some indifferent playing, by youngsters who are among the exceptional, I question what marks out these particular individuals from their gifted pals. There is some luck to it.

I also wonder about connections. I would find it preferable if the competition did not include people who had already got their feet on the ladder, whether with Black Dyke or the NYO.

Is it me or do the parents of these musicians age prematurely?

[ardcarp]

Doesn't sound as if it would have wowed the judges! There's a nice piece by Schubert for horn and tenor (singer) 'Auf dem strom'...a sort of horn equivalent to Shepherd on the Rock. Not relevant to the competition, of course.

[ardcarp]

I question what marks out these particular individuals from their gifted pals. There is some luck to it

Bear in mind that not all (many?) gifted musicians wnat to go in for competitions. Presumably those that end up taking part do so because either they, their teachers or their parents think it's a good idea. The suspicious thing is that we ended up with 5 different brass instruments, so the likelihood is that somewhere along the line the judges were told that the category final would be boring for viewers if (by chance) 5 french horn players happened to be the best of the bunch.

[Hornspieler]

There is indeed a 'sonata for pianoforte with horn' ( thus described on the title page) by the young Beethoven and a very 'worthy' and rather dull piece it is too...especially played by the lugubriously 'smoothed out' tones of the modern valve horn.
Beethoven reportedly accepted a commission for it from the most celebrated ( natural - valveless) horn player of the day, Punto. Then he forgot about it until he saw an advert the day before the concert.
He wrote out the horn part that night and in the concert next morning ( presumably without rehearsal) he improvised the piano part.

Yes, I'm inclined to agree with Waldhorn that the Beethoven Sonata would not give an all round example of a contestant's abilities, despite Dennis Brain and Denis Matthews' 1946 recording making it sound like an absolute World beater.

The obvious piece to demonstrate all round ability and musicianship is arguably Villanelle by Paul Dukas, but it has appeared perhaps too often in past competitions and the likes of David Pyatt, who won YMOTY some years ago, have set a very high benchmark for this piece.

So I would have opted for Nielsen's "Canto Serioso" for lyrical playing and perhaps "Hunters Moon" by Gilbert Vinter or "Alla Caccia" by Alan Abott for jollity and technical expertise.

HS

[Hornspieler]

I couldn't pick a winner. I was pleased though that the gimmicks of the tuba player, and to a lesser extent the player of the french horn, didn't win out. The beat boxing was all for the good but only at Glastonbury.

The pieces chosen were underwhelming. I tend to like brass but I only really enjoyed the Sonata for Trumpet and Piano by Stevens. I suppose the Vaughan Williams' Romanza was ok too.

Given the nerves, and some indifferent playing, by youngsters who are among the exceptional, I question what marks out these particular individuals from their gifted pals. There is some luck to it.

I also wonder about connections. I would find it preferable if the competition did not include people who had already got their feet on the ladder, whether with Black Dyke or the NYO.

Is it me or do the parents of these musicians age prematurely?

Not the parents. It is the young musicians who are encouraged to age too quickly. I believe that in many cases, the parents push too hard, to the detriment of their beloved offspring's future. A teenager is entitled to more than hour upon hour of practise, ignoring their friends and social activities. I have known too many cases of near nervous breakdowns among young musicians who have been pushed too hard and too soon to satisfy the ambitions not of themselves but of their parents.

Young musicians of talent should be competing for places at Music Colleges, in order to learn their trade (which involves much more than just an ability to play an instrument) rather than be pushed forward by their parents and tutors into this competion which can only represent a temporary triumph for a few - at the whim of the "Judges"(sic)) and heartbreak and disappointment for the rest.

HS