Should we be moving to paperless offices?

[Dave2002]

I recently received a P60 form, with the usual reminder to "save it in a safe place". Unfortunately I usually do, then forget where.
With the much reduced costs of modern technology I wonder if it would be better to scan it first, plus somehow tag it as a file, and only then put the original in a safe place.

It should work for most documents for which scanned copies or photocopies are acceptable.
It probably wouldn't work for documents such as CRB paperwork, which causes interesting effects if put through a photocopier.

[cloughie]

I recently received a P60 form, with the usual reminder to "save it in a safe place". Unfortunately I usually do, then forget where.
With the much reduced costs of modern technology I wonder if it would be better to scan it first, plus somehow tag it as a file, and only then put the original in a safe place.

It should work for most documents for which scanned copies or photocopies are acceptable.
It probably wouldn't work for documents such as CRB paperwork, which causes interesting effects if put through a photocopier.

No, just have folder marked tax 2011-12.

[MrGongGong]

I recently received a P60 form, with the usual reminder to "save it in a safe place". Unfortunately I usually do, then forget where.
With the much reduced costs of modern technology I wonder if it would be better to scan it first, plus somehow tag it as a file, and only then put the original in a safe place.

It should work for most documents for which scanned copies or photocopies are acceptable.
It probably wouldn't work for documents such as CRB paperwork, which causes interesting effects if put through a photocopier.

The Scottish "CRB" is on A4 paper ....... scanning problem solved

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i have

[mangerton]

Interesting. This year, for the first time, my employer sent P60s by email in PDF format.

We have had electronic payslips for a number of years.

[Dave2002]

Interesting. This year, for the first time, my employer sent P60s by email in PDF format.

We have had electronic payslips for a number of years.

We had a survey about adopting PDF or similar formats for the P60 a few years ago. I think in the end there were thought to be some legal issues - very possibly spurious, so they didn't. It should have been technically possible for us to have had the files stored in a personal area on our computer system, thus allowing print and or email at will, but I think that initiative stalled.

Re the CRBs, in the UK if you try photocopying for safe keeping, a message appears that the copy is illegal, in red, all over the document. I think some photocopiers detect microdots in the paper, and then put out the warning messages. Fair enough really, but I tried it in case the original copy we sent through the post got lost.

[gradus]

About 1990, possibly earlier I was being told by various IT experts about the imminence of the 'Paperless Office' surely we must be there by now.............................
Dunno, switch it off and try again.

[Dave2002]

I wasn't just thinking of scanning in just one document a year BTW. It doesn't have to only be a P60!

At work we now have some new so-called multi-function units, which will scan as well as print. Documents scanned are then emailed as PDF files to users. I've not tried this yet with anything serious, but if it's quick it could be a way to file away important documents for later retrieval. In some cases the originals could be kept, but for others it might be simpler to put them in the waste bin or shredder.

I did come across a doctor's surgery a few years ago which used scanning technology. Unfortunately it wasn't the most organised surgery in the world, and there was a curious mix of old technology and really old techniques and some modern ones. If you sent a letter to one of the doctors it was scanned in by the admin staff, and then put on the LAN for the doctor to read. This sometimes added a not completely trivial delay to the communications process. I assume that "in the old days" the letter would have been put into the doctor's in-tray or pigeon hole.

With so much communication with external organisations and people now taking place by email, there's less need for this, though unfortunately in the UK we haven't got used to secure email (maybe HMG doesn't want us to have that ...), so sometimes sending letters is safest from the point of view of privacy, security and authentication. In some countries (e.g Sweden) there is more of a push towards secure email, keeping the contents private, and methods which authenticate the sender. For example, I recently wanted to send a letter to various companies about my deceased parents in order to tidy up their estate. As I was typing one of these it occurred to me that the letter would contain information useful to someone who might want to hack into my bank accounts (typically security questions include "what is your mother's maiden name", "what is your father's first name" etc., so I hastily backed off doing that, and erased the text from the draft email folder. That example clearly (I hope) demonstrates the need for privacy, and also authentication, as someone else could have tried to impersonate me in dealing with the companies if they'd already acquired some of the information. In situations like that currently I still deal with organisations by regular mail, with checks by phone, or in person.

[Don Petter]

I recently received a P60 form, with the usual reminder to "save it in a safe place". Unfortunately I usually do, then forget where.
With the much reduced costs of modern technology I wonder if it would be better to scan it first, plus somehow tag it as a file, and only then put the original in a safe place.

It should work for most documents for which scanned copies or photocopies are acceptable.
It probably wouldn't work for documents such as CRB paperwork, which causes interesting effects if put through a photocopier.

You'd still have the problem of finding the original P60 if the tax man asks to see it! They only accept originals. (And they managed to lose one of mine which they said they'd sent back, but I never received. Luckily I had kept a copy.)

[Don Petter]

About 1990, possibly earlier I was being told by various IT experts about the imminence of the 'Paperless Office' surely we must be there by now.............................
Dunno, switch it off and try again.

I seem to remember it as much before that, and

"An early prediction of the paperless office was made in a 1975 Business Week article" says wiki!

[Resurrection Man]

Ah.the 'paperless office' and something on which I feel I can comment reasonably authoritatively. There was, indeed, the idea of the 'PO' (paperless office) back towards the mid 90's when companies such as FileNet started up. Then the larger companies such as IBM jumped on the bandwagon with ImagePlus. It was not all plain-sailing. The systems ranged from basically an optical filing system which was of precious little use to many companies especially those that had some form of workflow in their operations..such as mortgage providers or insurance companies. For an optical filing system to work, the key was setting up and adhering to a way to index the images so that they could be retrieved at a later date. Many systems failed at this because companies that jumped on the bandwagon and bought these systems had not fully understood the indexing overhead.

Those companies that could see the benefit of an imaging + workflow system (such as FileNet) were the ones to get the best results especially if it was a greenfield site. The issue with existing companies and their legacy of paper files was how to integrate the two. Many such 'integration' projects failed because of the failure of companies to appreciate the time needed to scan in and index the backfile (ie the paper files). Also the FileNet system was very very laborious to program and to implement changes in the business workflow ...which as we moved towards the end of the '90's and businesses started to evolve and change with rapidity became more and more difficult. Offerings by the larger companies like IBM were laughably poor...but then 'no-one got fired buying IBM'.

Newcomers started, such as ViewStar - a US West Coast company - started up and offered a remarkably flexible and elegant system and really gave old-fashioned companies like a FileNet a bit of a bloody nose. It was very easy to prototype and put in place a workflow system using ViewStar...partly because the internal architecture was able to take advantage of new advances in computer programming languages/systems. Then we had the next consultant-speak buzzword 'BPR'...business process re-engineering....and this played to the strengths of ViewStar, for example.

Companies starting up operation, such as Halifax General Insurance ..a greenfield site...were able to implement a ViewStar system from Day One and any incoming paper never got further than the mail/scanning room. It was a resounding success. In fact, Halifax had five separate ViewStar systems underpinning many of their key operations. However, I have no idea what the current situation is.

That was then. I have been out of this area a long long time and so cant comment on what is out there now. Hope I haven't bored anyone with this little trip down memory lane !

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I went on a course for a demonstration of the merits of a paperless office.
"You'll be much better off without those annoying bits of paper.
Several crashes later, people were heard to mutter-
"We never have this much trouble with those annoying bits of paper."

[JFLL]

The trouble with going paperless, at least for the ordinary person, is that these days, presumably because of anti-money-laundering regulations, if you want to, say, open a bank account you are usually asked for recent utility bills or bank/credit card statements etc. in hard copy – they won't accept downloaded statements. So the very same banks who are urging us to go paperless won't accept paperless documents as identification, in effect.

[Tony Halstead]

I had a real 'run-in' with Lloyds a few years ago.
In order to gain access to my late mother's bank account I was asked to provide a COPY of her will, to Lloyds.
Knowing how valuable a will is, I duly sent them a copy - a photocopy - but it was immediately returned by the bank, who said that 'photocopies are not acceptable'.
I then visited the bank in person.
Its manager told me that the word 'copy' really means ( of course )
the ORIGINAL!
How stupid of me not to be able to translate this absurd bank-speak.
I am now a client of HSBC.

[JFLL]

I had a real 'run-in' with Lloyds a few years ago.
In order to gain access to my late mother's bank account I was asked to provide a COPY of her will, to Lloyds.
Knowing how valuable a will is, I duly sent them a copy - a photocopy - but it was immediately returned by the bank, who said that 'photocopies are not acceptable'.
I then visited the bank in person.
Its manager told me that the word 'copy' really means ( of course )
the ORIGINAL!
How stupid of me not to be able to translate this absurd bank-speak.
I am now a client of HSBC.

They'd probably, though, have accepted a 'copy' written out in copperplate by a Dickensian clerk on a high stool with a quill pen, sealed with the official seal of an approved firm of solicitors, and supplied to you at exorbitant expense. After all, the main thing's the inconvenience/expense to the 'customer', isn't it?