Osborne discovers that the rich avoid paying tax

[Serial_Apologist]

Excellent observations!

Not really - because if, as ahinton points out, whether the rich are already avoiding paying their taxes, evading same, legally or otherwise, or as a consequence of Osbourn's "shock"are to have such loopholes closed to them so that they will have to pay their proportionate wack, and as a consequence decide to move abroad, those less well off will still have to carry the burden. Who wins out?

[Lateralthinking1]

So if we increase higher taxes, people will leave the country even though they won't be affected much because of loopholes.

If we keep them as currently, there is a risk that they will leave even though they aren't affected much because of loopholes.

And if we lower the rates and clamp down on loopholes, they will pay lots and lots more and happily stay in the country as long as we spend all the extra money on good things for society.

Sorry but no. It defies logic. I think I was probably writing this in parallel with serial_apologist.

[Beef Oven]

Not really - because if, as ahinton points out, whether the rich are already avoiding paying their taxes, evading same, legally or otherwise, or as a consequence of Osbourn's "shock"are to have such loopholes closed to them so that they will have to pay their proportionate wack, and as a consequence decide to move abroad, those less well off will still have to carry the burden. Who wins out?

Cereal, yer wrong - ahinton's well on it!!

Try to get yer head 'round what he's saying!

Fools suffer from groupthink
.

[Serial_Apologist]

So if we increase higher taxes, people will leave the country even though they won't be affected much because of loopholes.

If we keep them as currently, there is a risk that they will leave even though they aren't affected much because of loopholes.

And if we lower the rates and clamp down on loopholes, they will pay lots and lots more and happily stay in the country as long as we spend all the extra money on good things for society.

Sorry but no. It defies logic. I think I was probably writing this in parallel with serial_apologist.

Great minds think alike, Lat!

[teamsaint]

i worry about tax discussions........but I really can't get my head round the fact that the rich guys tell us that lowering the top rate of income tax to 45% will increase the tax take.surely in that case they should have been happy to keep the rate at 50%.
why would they want to pay more tax ......they normally avoid it as much as possible. Even gormless knows that now.

[Beef Oven]

i worry about tax discussions........but I really can't get my head round the fact that the rich guys tell us that lowering the top rate of income tax to 45% will increase the tax take.surely in that case they should have been happy to keep the rate at 50%.
why would they want to pay more tax ......they normally avoid it as much as possible. Even gormless knows that now.

Yeah, smash the rich, they got it coming to 'em anyway. Storm the Winter Palace.

.

[Lateralthinking1]

Great minds think alike, Lat!

Let's go really wild here and say that if we lower the rates and clamp down on loopholes, they will pay lots and lots more and happily stay in the country as long as we spend all the extra money on good things for society.

That means that they completely set the political agenda rather than only mainly doing so. Elections are officially declared bogus. Democracy even just in name is dead in the water.

Economy destroyed plus democracy destroyed. It's the Osama bin Laden agenda for the West fulfilled. Hell, all those nutters in GCHQ are focussing on those who are sitting back knowing that the job is being done for them.

(PS - Talking of which, interesting to note that the system beyond Parliament has new evidence on rendition in 2004. Someone might ask if and when it will turn its attentions to 2005-6. Not me obviously. I know nothing about the subject at all.)

[teamsaint]

Yeah, smash the rich, they got it coming to 'em anyway. Storm the Winter Palace.

.

Is there a cunningly hidden point in there, Beefy?

[Beef Oven]

i worry about tax discussions........but I really can't get my head round the fact that the rich guys tell us that lowering the top rate of income tax to 45% will increase the tax take.surely in that case they should have been happy to keep the rate at 50%.
why would they want to pay more tax ......they normally avoid it as much as possible. Even gormless knows that now.

By the way, it's the Inland Revenue that tell us that lowering the top rate will increase revenue, not the top rate tax-payer (or the 'rich' as you put it). But what would they know about collecting revenue compared to the experts in this forum?

[teamsaint]

By the way, it's the Inland Revenue that tell us that lowering the top rate will increase revenue, not the top rate tax-payer (or the 'rich' as you put it). But what would they know about collecting revenue compared to the experts in this forum?

it was top business leaders , or rich people , who constantly pushed for it, or were used as a front for the policy.

And government department figures can be made to show anything that the government wants.

[Beef Oven]

No, I was just agreeing with you!

see my post below for a factual view.

[Beef Oven]

it was top business leaders , or rich people , who constantly pushed for it, or were used as a front for the policy.

And government department figures can be made to show anything that the government wants.

You obviously have no experience or understanding of the Inland Revenue and how it works. I bet Cameron would give his right arm for the IR to be a 'government department' showing anything the 'government wants'.

[teamsaint]

I worked there as a manager for 3 years .

If the government don't use statistics from their own departments to help them make their case , they must be very daft indeed.

anyway governments DO use stats in a dishonest way to suit their agenda.
Remember the one about how a quarter of children born would live to 100. That was a distortion (at best) put out by the DWP.

[Beef Oven]

I worked there as a manager for 3 years .

If the government don't use statistics from their own departments to help them make their case , they must be very daft indeed.

anyway governments DO use stats in a dishonest way to suit their agenda.
Remember the one about how a quarter of children born would live to 100. That was a distortion (at best) put out by the DWP.

If you worked there as a manager you might know better. If you worked there as a director, you would know better.

Of course government department prepare statistics based on departmental interests.

[Lateralthinking1]

Scarily still here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126190/Francis-Maude-new-row-boasting-Britain-tax-haven-coalition.html

Sadly still critical:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-17625473