The long boat game

[teamsaint]

This is exactly the sort of mentality that I am referring to!

what mentality , beefy?
one that admires excellence, but dislikes a society run by those who inherited their privileged position?
One that recognises that we all have different perspectives?
One that attempts to see the problems that a lack of meritocracy brings?
I am intrigued.

[Panjandrum]

open to everyone?Really?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/06/oxford-colleges-no-black-students

http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/news/black-students-miss-out-on-oxbridge-(1)/

Guess it depends what you mean by open.
I am no professional statistician, but Its a lot more open for white kids from Westminster school, really.

Been to a doctor recently? I think he might diagnose tall poppy syndrome.

[Beef Oven]

what mentality , beefy?
one that admires excellence, but dislikes a society run by those who inherited their privileged position?
One that recognises that we all have different perspectives?
One that attempts to see the problems that a lack of meritocracy brings?
I am intrigued.

If you don't readily understand my point, see Panjandrum's post below (he's an Oxford graduate and puts it better than my red-brick attempt!)

[teamsaint]

so Panj, you think those stats are ok then?
happy with them?
you are happy that kids from South Bermondsey are getting a fair deal compared to, say, kids from Eton?

you are an Oxbridge type. Out argue me.
You should be better than post #212

[teamsaint]

If you don't readily understand my point, see Panjandrum's post below (he's an Oxford graduate and puts it better than my red-brick attempt!)

no i don't readily understand your point at all.
And Panj thinks a trip to the doctor will cure something I don't have.

you have ignored my points, and failed to engage at all, I think.

[Beef Oven]

so Panj, you think those stats are ok then?
happy with them?
you are happy that kids from South Bermondsey are getting a fair deal compared to, say, kids from Eton?

you are an Oxbridge type. Out argue me.
You should be better than post #212

Come off it teamsaint, post #212 was the dog's danglies - game set and match!

[Beef Oven]

no i don't readily understand your point at all.
And Panj thinks a trip to the doctor will cure something I don't have.

you have ignored my points, and failed to engage at all, I think.

Hate to tell you mate, but you got it bad!

[Nick Armstrong]

You are an Oxbridge type. Out argue me.

[teamsaint]

Hate to tell you mate, but you got it bad!

well you seem very sure. what is it I have bad?
The non existent tall poppy syndrome?
I am still intrigued.

[Beef Oven]

well you seem very sure. what is it I have bad?
The non existent tall poppy syndrome?
I am still intrigued.

Ok, have it your way. You have the 'non-existent tall poppy syndrome'. There's no cure for it.

[MrGongGong]

Oxbridge is open to all. You just have to pass the admissions test.

Like Prince Edward did you mean ?

(that's a joke by the way)

things like the Royal Family getting waved into Universities don't really help the argument that its meritocratic .............
Thinking about Music for a moment , Cambridge (for example) has a great department BUT it's a bit dull compared to some other institutions. Sandy Goehr is a wonderful man and a great thinker about music but very much in the mainstream. If THAT is what you want, great , and i've worked with some wonderful Cambridge Undergraduates , there are other areas of study for which this institution (like RAM etc ) would be useless at


What is a bit tiresome is the received wisdom that this (and the other) University are uniquely outstanding in everything, for every subject, all the time ........ suggesting otherwise seems to be seen as equating a 3rd in Golf Course studies from the University of Slough with a 1st in Theoretical Physics from Oxford ! which it clearly isn't !

[french frank]

Well, I applied for a research fellowship at Oxford (can't remember which college - Worcester?) and a University lectureship at Cambridge and was rebuffed by both. This could be interpreted in many ways ...

[Panjandrum]

open to everyone?Really?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/06/oxford-colleges-no-black-students

http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/news/black-students-miss-out-on-oxbridge-(1)/

Guess it depends what you mean by open.
I am no professional statistician, but Its a lot more open for white kids from Westminster school, really.

By "open" I mean open to anyone who meets stringent entrance criteria. I don't know what your 'A' level grades were, teamsaint, but back in the day you needed 3 straight As at 'A' level to get in; or take an entrance exam. If you had those kind of grades, at least one of the colleges would find room for you. A read of Brideshead Revisited or A Question of Upbringing will provide ample evidence that those from "humble" backgrounds have always been admitted to Oxbridge, provided they had the academic potential.

[teamsaint]

Anyway, away from non existent syndromes, and back in the real world Beefy, Panj, Caliban........

I would love you to show me that the kind of stats I linked to are wrong and that opportunity is broadly equal. i would love you to show me that i am wrong and that this IS a country where opportunity is really there for all, because that is a country I want to live in.

oh, and I know that life will never be completely fair...

[MrGongGong]

Well, I applied for a research fellowship at Oxford (can't remember which college - Worcester?) and a University lectureship at Cambridge and was rebuffed by both. This could be interpreted in many ways ...

Fools , can't recognise "excellence" when it's handed to them on a plate !
Or
you weren't wearing a Lib Dem tie by any chance were you ?

dressing right is an important part of the interview process

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Education/Pix/pictures/2008/08/25/etonboys1936.jpg