The long boat game

[Flosshilde]

Absolutely. Going to Oxbridge isn't so much getting a prize as being sentenced to three years' hard labour. Those who won't be able to cope with it would be better going somewhere else. I've never worked as hard in my life as I did for those three years.

I have a memory of some research a while ago that indicated that those who had trouble coping were more likely to come from the private education sector rather than state schools (I think one of the reasons was that the latter were more able to think for themselves, & the former were very likely to have been 'crammed' to pass the exams). It does seem ironic, then, that Oxbridge entrants are more likely to come from the private sector - it would seem that the selectors are selecting those more likely to fail.

[teamsaint]

I have a memory of some research a while ago that indicated that those who had trouble coping were more likely to come from the private education sector rather than state schools (I think one of the reasons was that the latter were more able to think for themselves, & the former were very likely to have been 'crammed' to pass the exams). It does seem ironic, then, that Oxbridge entrants are more likely to come from the private sector - it would seem that the selectors are selecting those more likely to fail.

I read an article which did indeed show this, a couple of years ago.

[Simon]

Another ad hominem attack, Simon? If you are going to do that, would you mind batting for the other side please?

I'm not absolutely sure how to make a point about silly comments without referring, at least in some way, to those who make them...

[handsomefortune]

well at £9,000 per term - i suspect failure is most welcome, as are periods of extended sickness....both highly desireable, if terms/years have to be repeated at further cost. high achievers are prone to suffer both eating & mental health disorders, the elite universities will presumably be quids in. imo the point about the glass of water that the under graduate made ie there not being one made available at her oxford interview, is actually more relevant than might be superficially assumed, in terms of links between elitism and low emotional intelligence.

[Simon]

I have a memory of some research a while ago that indicated that those who had trouble coping were more likely to come from the private education sector rather than state schools (I think one of the reasons was that the latter were more able to think for themselves, & the former were very likely to have been 'crammed' to pass the exams). It does seem ironic, then, that Oxbridge entrants are more likely to come from the private sector - it would seem that the selectors are selecting those more likely to fail.

Really? So, Flossie, in your view:

a) the "selectors" select people because they come from private schools;

b) they don't realise that state school students are more likely to "think for themselves" and that therefore those from other schools will have more trouble "coping" with high level education;

c) they have also failed to realise that by their actions they are perpetuating unnecessary failure rates.

I suggest you let the Oxbridge authorities know this asap, and perhaps drop a note to Michael Gove too. They've obviously been doing it wrong for ages, haven't they?

[Vile Consort]

You may have to do more than just turn up, but A grades they are much easier to come by than they were in my day. I know youngsters who have got three straight A's recently but who, I am pretty sure, would not cope with the whirlwind that is an Oxbridge undergraduate course. And Mr GG has pointed other reasons why study at Oxbridge isn't right for everybody.

Teamsaint's unstated assumption that everybody with 3 A's would benefit from an Oxbridge education is, I am afraid, wrong.

[Vile Consort]

I have a memory of some research a while ago that indicated that those who had trouble coping were more likely to come from the private education sector rather than state schools (I think one of the reasons was that the latter were more able to think for themselves, & the former were very likely to have been 'crammed' to pass the exams). It does seem ironic, then, that Oxbridge entrants are more likely to come from the private sector - it would seem that the selectors are selecting those more likely to fail.

That would explain why the drop-out rate at Oxbridge is so high compared with the other universities then ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/jun/05/accesstouniversity-higher-education

[Flosshilde]

Really? So, Flossie, in your view:

a) the "selectors" select people because they come from private schools;

b) they don't realise that state school students are more likely to "think for themselves" and that therefore those from other schools will have more trouble "coping" with high level education;

c) they have also failed to realise that by their actions they are perpetuating unnecessary failure rates.

I suggest you let the Oxbridge authorities know this asap, and perhaps drop a note to Michael Gove too. They've obviously been doing it wrong for ages, haven't they?

Does this mean that I have been un-Ignored by Simon ?

[MrGongGong]

Absolutely. Going to Oxbridge isn't so much getting a prize as being sentenced to three years' hard labour. Those who won't be able to cope with it would be better going somewhere else. I've never worked as hard in my life as I did for those three years.

for some people it's not a case of "being able to cope with it" but more that it doesn't teach the things you want to study. So ,for example, if one wanted to study electroacoustic music (without some idiot appearing to say that it's not music maybe ?) then you would be well advised to go to Birmingham, York, City, DMU or Huddersfield as that's where there is a concentration of expertise in that field whilst the music degrees at Oxford and Cambridge are excellent in themselves the departments don't have staff who are at the leading edge of research and practice in this area. Not that this is a problem at all more that different places suit different people.

[Beef Oven]

[Edited by the Moderator]

.

Ok, let me have another go at this.

'Wouldn't it be ironic if that arrogant young lady failed to get into UCL? I would laugh and laugh until my sides split or my head rolled off! '

(Sorry Mr Pee, not quite as good the original post, but we must respect people who are more sensitive than you and me!)

[Mr Pee]

Ok, let me have another go at this.

'Wouldn't it be ironic if that arrogant young lady failed to get into UCL? I would laugh and laugh until my sides split or my head rolled off! '

(Sorry Mr Pee, not quite as good the original post, but we must respect people who are more sensitive than you and me!)

Some people must be so sensitive I wonder how they get through the day....

[teamsaint]

You may have to do more than just turn up, but A grades they are much easier to come by than they were in my day. I know youngsters who have got three straight A's recently but who, I am pretty sure, would not cope with the whirlwind that is an Oxbridge undergraduate course. And Mr GG has pointed other reasons why study at Oxbridge isn't right for everybody.

Teamsaint's unstated assumption that everybody with 3 A's would benefit from an Oxbridge education is, I am afraid, wrong.

it wasn't an unstated assumption......I was suggesting that the pool of available talent is very big. I
Of course Oxbridge isn't right for everybody, not even those with 3 A's.
As i did suggest, there are an awful lot of people who get firsts elsewhere, for example who could clearly have benefitted from Oxbridge.......and there are a pretty large number of people who go to Oxbridge and for one reason or another(including poor selection techniques) fail to produce academic excellence.

[Lateralthinking1]

I was wondering if anyone could name, say, three specific things to have emerged from Oxford and Cambridge that we have all benefited from in the last fifty years? This is not to argue that they are bad or should be closed down but to set their reputations in a realistic and practical context. (By contrast, Radio 3 potentially benefits all - its is open to all)

[Vile Consort]

I was wondering if anyone could name, say, three specific things to have emerged from Oxford and Cambridge that we have all benefited from in the last fifty years? This is not to argue that they are bad or should be closed down but to set their reputations in a realistic and practical context. (By contrast, Radio 3 potentially benefits all - its is open to all)

OK, but to make it fair I suggest somebody else can pick another pair of universities and you have to tell us what specific things have emerged from them that have benefited us all in the last 50 years. Is it a deal?

[MrGongGong]

Well at the moment i'm using this ....... which is brilliant

http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/facilities/BEAST/research/BEASTtools.aspx