The long boat game

[Vile Consort]

I am not saying that the standards of teaching or achievement are lower. What I do think is that the awarding of marks
starts with the assumption that you get 10% just for being there.

Then what did you mean when you said that "Oxford and Cambridge dish out firsts and 2:1s like smarties"? You must have worded your statement very poorly if you meant something else.

[Vile Consort]

No problem with rowing as a sport, but does the boat race merit so much BBC coverage ?

If people want to watch it then yes. That's the criterion by which most of the crap that constitutes British television gets on air.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

...however if you seek to have a more rounded and challenging course then York, Huddersfield or Brunel would be much better places to study music......

Hardly "more rounded", just the opposite end of the spectrum.

[Lateralthinking1]

Then what did you mean when you said that "Oxford and Cambridge dish out firsts and 2:1s like smarties"? You must have worded your statement very poorly if you meant something else.

I don't think so. If I need to acquire 68% to get a first at the University of Skegness and only 58% plus an automatic 10% attendance allowance at the University of Oxford, then obviously I need to do less to get a first at Oxford. That is not to say that a higher percentage of people at Oxford aren't achieving 68% in any case as one might expect.

[Serial_Apologist]

Then what did you mean when you said that "Oxford and Cambridge dish out firsts and 2:1s like smarties"? You must have worded your statement very poorly if you meant something else.

What about replying to Lateralthinking1's sympathetic point about your poor chances of getting the sort of preferential treatment accorded the likes of Ian Botham?

[MrGongGong]

And that is interesting too. It shows that different universities are the best for different courses and raises questions about how polytechnics that became universities can ever catch up in respect of reputation.
.

It all depends on with WHOM (is that correct grammar ?) one want's to have a "good reputation" with. If you want to study music and then join the civil service then you are better going to Oxford or Cambridge , if you want to be part of the musical establishment and become a cathedral organist you are probably better advised to go there as well. However, if you want to study live electronics in music performance you could do much worse than go to York or Brunel or Huddersfield etc

"Hardcore acousmatic music" ? Birmingham , though it probably wont get you fast tracked in Whitehall !

People will always be automatically impressed with Oxbridge degrees , there's FA one can do about that and if it suits you then it's a good option.

[MrGongGong]

Hardly "more rounded", just the opposite end of the spectrum.

Not at all , wider contextualised is probably a better way of putting it !
Have you seen Yorks degree course ?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

was the chap singling out Oxbridge for elitist tendencies or protesting the prevalence of elitism in Britain more generally with the Boat Race a rather good point of protest? since it is being watched by a load of U people etc .... .... and on telly ....

very heated lunch with sprog and swmbo still in hanging and flogging mindsets .... a real spoilsport would be the politest equivalent to their views of said chap

[Vile Consort]

What about replying to Lateralthinking1's sympathetic point about your poor chances of getting the sort of preferential treatment accorded the likes of Ian Botham?

I was ignoring it because it is utterly irrelevant. Botham doesn't get that treatment because he was born into a wealthy family (he wasn't) or because he went to Oxbridge (he didn't) nor even because he went to a public school (he didn't). So where does elitism come into it?

The business with the elephant was a high-profile charity walk wasn't it, not a race between me and another nobody on unicycles. In any case, the "privilege" of a road closure was surely not granted to him personally but to the charities he was raising money for. Of course big events can obtain road closures, and me and my mate wanting to lark about can't. That's not elitism, it's just common sense.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I must admit that since television was privatised, I have lost interest in the Boat Race, Yet I love rowing and boats in general.

[Lateralthinking1]

I was ignoring it because it is utterly irrelevant. Botham doesn't get that treatment because he was born into a wealthy family (he wasn't) or because he went to Oxbridge (he didn't) nor even because he went to a public school (he didn't). So where does elitism come into it?

Several points are criss-crossing. That is my fault. The elitism re Botham is in the name and associated reputation, ie special rights for somebodies rather than nobodies. That does compare with the Oxbridge mentality. I suppose you could say that the TT Races or the London to Brighton Veteran Car Rally are examples of permissions being given that are not wholly elitist in that way.

However, the difficulty I have with the boat race is in its symbolism of the kind of elitism that wallows in exclusivity and still has an archaic hold in the corridors of power. This in turn shapes the systems, influences policy and puts up walls between them and us whenever such things are questioned. What does it say too about open competition which it is claimed this country promotes?

I can understand how the protester yesterday could be viewed as a spoilsport. There is an innocuous level to the race. Arguably he wasn't the ideal person to trigger constructive questioning. That said, the dismissing of him by the press as a nutcase, with focus on his weak spots, has a shivering effect on me. I thought that we had moved as a society a bit above that kind of thing.

[Vile Consort]

Surely Botham is an example of somebody using their celebrity to further good causes. Elitism is people getting rewards on the basis of [i]irrelevant[I] considerations such as social class or which school or university they went to, especially where the person didn't make any contribution towards such considerations. In doing a charity walk, he isn't getting a reward at all - he's giving, not taking.

Oh and by the way, do you (LateralThinking1) think that the external examiners from other universities collude in the fraudulent marking system that you claim is perpetrated at Oxbridge?

ETA: I had better stop posting now because I have started drinking, and I usually make a complete pratt of myself when I post whilst in my cups (if I haven't already). You may imagine that, being an Oxbridge graduate, I have sent my butler to select a rather expensive bottle (say £4,000) from my extensive reserves and I am now enjoying it in the finest lead crystal. Yeah ... I'm imagining that, too.

[Flosshilde]

It must be my dirty mind. I glanced at the link and read "....Boris-hand-job"

He is a bit of a merchant

[Flosshilde]

the assumptions acquired at Oxbridge don't later serve the general public well.

I think that this is the most pernicious aspect of the Oxbridge domination of public institutions, including government, the civil service & the law. Most have been to private schools & then on to Oxbridge, all of which produces people with a very narrow experience & understanding of society.

[Simon]

I agree with those who say that the tradition should be kept but that it should be a final between the best of universities.

But, pace vinteuil's excellent riposte above, if it were changed as you suggest it wouldn't then be a tradition, would it?