The long boat game

[doversoul1]

I was wondering if anyone could name, say, three specific things to have emerged from Oxford and Cambridge that we have all benefited from in the last fifty years? This is not to argue that they are bad or should be closed down but to set their reputations in a realistic and practical context. (By contrast, Radio 3 potentially benefits all - its is open to all)

What chances would Philosophy and Literature courses have if they were to be judged by their ‘realistic and practical context’? In realistic and practical context, that is what universities are battling against today. Unless they can show their ‘results’, no funding. What would you want Oxford and Cambridge to be? Skills for Life training providers where everybody can go and learn something 'useful'?

[MrGongGong]

What chances would Philosophy and Literature courses have if they were to be judged by their ‘realistic and practical context’? In realistic and practical context, that is what universities are battling against today. Unless they can show their ‘results’, no funding. What would you want Oxford and Cambridge to be? Skills for Life training providers where everybody can go and lear something 'useful'?

Indeed

I didn't get where I am today (sitting in a converted loft timestretching creaky doors and writing an orchestral piece) by being "realistic" or even very "practical".........

[Pabmusic]

I was wondering if anyone could name, say, three specific things to have emerged from Oxford and Cambridge that we have all benefited from in the last fifty years? This is not to argue that they are bad or should be closed down but to set their reputations in a realistic and practical context. (By contrast, Radio 3 potentially benefits all - its is open to all)

To limit myself to the Cavendish Laboratories, and starting with the structure of DNA, might I suggest the work of the following Nobel prizewinners:

Watson and Crick (Biology 1962), John Kendrew (Chemistry (1962), Dorothy Hodgkin (Chemistry 1964), Brian Josephson (Physics 1973), Martin Ryle 1974), Anthony Hewish (Physics 1974), Neville Mott (Physics 1977), Philip Anderson (Physics 1977), Pjotr Kapitsa (Physics 1978), Alan Cormack (Medecine 1979), Aaron Klug (Chemistry 1982).

I could add from the Footlights of the same period: Douglas Adams, Clive Anderson, Alexander Armstrong, John Bird, Christopher Booker, Eleanor Bron, Tim Brooke-Taylor, Graham Chapman, John Cleese, Peter Cook, David Frost, Stephen Fry, Graeme Garden, Bamber Gascoigne, Germaine Greer, Eric Idle, Clive James, Hugh Laurie, John Lloyd, Jonathan Lynn, Miriam Margolyes, Rory McGrath, Ben Miller, Jonathan Miller, David Mitchell, David Nobbs, Trevor Nunn, Des O'Connor (yes!), Bill Oddie, Sue Perkins, Griff Rhys Jones, John Shrapnel, Tony Slattery, Richard Stilgoe, Emma Thompson, and Sandi Toksvig.

Maybe someone will say "...but what did they do?" but I haven't got the time (and I haven't mentioned anyone from Oxford)...

[Vile Consort]

Also from Cambridge, the invention of the webcam and the programmable computer.

Plus, if Radio 3 counts as a benefit, then I'd suggest the sung services at Kings, John's, Christ Church and New College (and probably others) also count.

[MrGongGong]

Also from Cambridge, the invention of the webcam and the programmable computer.

Plus, if Radio 3 counts as a benefit, then I'd suggest the sung services at Kings, John's, Christ Church and New College (and probably others) also count.

It's not all great though !

Michael Howard, Katie Derham, Alastair Campbell, Michael Winner,Sacha Baron-Cohen

not forgetting

Anthony Blunt (Trinity)
Guy Burgess (Trinity)
John Cairncross (Trinity)
Donald Maclean (Trinity Hall)
Kim Philby (Trinity)
Michael Whitney Straight (Trinity)

and of course not forgetting the memorable political philosopher

Nick Griffin

ALL of which are balanced by the genius of Delia Derbyshire IMV

[Pabmusic]

...ALL of which are balanced by the genius of Delia Derbyshire IMV

[MrGongGong]

There is also this ..................

"Edward obtained a C-grade and two D-grades at A-level,[5] and after his schooling spent a gap year abroad, working as a house tutor and junior master for two terms in September 1982 at the Wanganui Collegiate School in New Zealand.
Upon his return to Britain, Edward matriculated at Jesus College, Cambridge, to read history. His admission to Cambridge caused some controversy at the time, as his A-level grades were far below the standard normally required, "straight As", for entry to the university.[6] Edward graduated in 1986 with lower second class honours,[7] and, as is customary at Cambridge, proceeded Master of Arts (Cantab) in 1991, making Edward the fourth of only five members of the Royal Family in history to have obtained a university degree."

I guess they were looking somewhere else at the time of his interview then
and who gets an MA with a Desmond ?

[Panjandrum]

I, like other Oxbridge grads, was happy to accept the masters degree when it was conferred on me. There is no examination or study required for the degree beyond those required for the BA. This practice differs from that in most other universities worldwide, for whom the degree reflects further postgraduate study or achievement, and these degrees are sometimes referred to as the Oxbridge MA and Dublin or Trinity MA to differentiate them. The Oxbridge MA is based on the system of academic rank rather than on one of academic qualifications. IMO, it reflects the more exacting academic standards at the varsity.

[Serial_Apologist]

Oxbridge produced Panjandrum then

[John Skelton]

IMO, it reflects the more exacting academic standards at the varsity.

So my degree from University College London was academically less exacting than a degree from "the varsity"?

[Mary Chambers]

I, like other Oxbridge grads, was happy to accept the masters degree when it was conferred on me. There is no examination or study required for the degree beyond those required for the BA.

My son refused it - at least I think he did. Perhaps it is automatic, and one doesn't have to accept or refuse. He thought it was silly. I don't mind either way - most people know what it is. I do get slightly annoyed, though, by what passes for an examined M.A. in some universities now, when I think of the two-volume original thesis I produced for my London M.A., rather a lot of years ago.

[MrGongGong]

IMO, it reflects the more exacting academic standards at the varsity.

In your dreams maybe
Is that more received "wisdom" or based on any evidence ?
or is it like "Dr" Paisley's "doctorate" ?

I'm NOT saying that Camford degrees are not hard, difficult or that you have to be clever to get in (eeeeeeer though it's not ALWAYS the case hey Eddy !) but if this really was true then the whole moderation and external examiner process would seem to be a bit suspect ! (and I am an external examiner myself ....... though not at either of those institutions).

[Panjandrum]

Oxbridge produced Panjandrum then

Indeed SA. In 834 posts I have never brought the subject up, but as with one's natural mother, when one's alma mater is attacked, maliciously and in many cases with astonishing ignorance, one does get a little bit tetchy. Anyway, it's all a bit of a isn't it?

[Vile Consort]

The MA is not automatic. ISTR my college sent me a form. Arrangements were made before the recent election for Chancellor for those who hadn't taken up the offer initially to have an MA conferred on them so that they would be eligible to vote.

How does this work at other universities? Does a bachelor's degree come with voting rights?

I had forgotten about Prince Edward going to Cambridge - I was thinking Charles was the last duffer to get a place on this basis. I have to admit it pongs a bit.

[doversoul1]

I do get slightly annoyed, though, by what passes for an examined M.A. in some universities now, when I think of the two-volume original thesis I produced for my London M.A., rather a lot of years ago.

I think you can say that today’s MA is the equivalent to BA in, say, up to the early 60’s. There are just so many graduates that having BA does not mean very much these days. Also, in ‘realistic and practical context’, one year full time MA courses are what make money for a lot of universities, especially the courses designed to ‘cater for’ the overseas students. I have seen some dissertations that had passed. Well….

I blame all this for the policy that moved university from the Department for Education to the Department for Business and Skills.