Your Information in the Govt's Hands

[Simon]

David Davis, for example?

Absolutely, fhg: very predictable, naive comments from a leftist source within the Conservative party. Nothing surprising there.

[amateur51]

Absolutely, fhg: very predictable, naive comments from a leftist source within the Conservative party. Nothing surprising there.

Ooooh you really reached for that one, Simon

The man was very nearly Leader of the Tories, for goodness' sake until his ambition was thwarted by a man we now know as a 'pasty fancier'

[Vile Consort]

There is no logical argument against this idea,

Well, that's the end of any discussion then. Simon is right, and everybody else is, by definition, illogical.

[MrGongGong]

Absolutely, fhg: very predictable, naive comments from a leftist source within the Conservative party. Nothing surprising there.

....................and all of a sudden little Simon woke up to find that it wasn't 1952 anymore and all of the woodland creatures had been eaten by rampaging hoardes of Polish migrants who had hidden themselves under the floorboards and were sneaking out at night to steal his copy of Stanford in C.

It's nice to see the prof back on form again though, don't you think !

[Simon]

How can we criticise the surveillance controls in authoritarian regimes if we put something just as bad in our own society?

Go and live in one of the world's authoritarian regimes, and then you'll understand why they can be criticised! The idea that this suggestion is "just as bad" is risible, aeolium, and I'm surprised that it has come from you. It is simply a very necessary addition to the armoury of the intelligence community, without whose efforts, despite being hamstrung by regulations, we would have been in much greater danger than we are now.

Can't you see that the reason that some regimes operate controls are to retain power for themselves against their own citizens. Conversely, the reason that the our own intelligence operatives need more access is precisely the opposite and is to protect their own fellow-citizens.

[french frank]

It is simply a very necessary addition to the armoury of the intelligence community, without whose efforts, despite being hamstrung by regulations, we would have been in much greater danger than we are now.

I wonder why the Tories kicked up such a fuss about it when Labour tried to introduce the same legislation a few years back ...

Oh, I hadn't read your final paragraph. Labour were doing it, of course, to prop up their regime against their own citizens, whereas the Tories are doing it to protect their fellow citizens. Perhaps?

[MrGongGong]

Can't you see that the reason that some regimes operate controls are to retain power for themselves against their own citizens. Conversely, the reason that the our own intelligence operatives need more access is precisely the opposite and is to protect their own fellow-citizens.

That is more or less what the North Koreans say........ these are powers that WILL be used against innocent people. Don't buy the bullshit

[Stunsworth]

Conversely, the reason that the our own intelligence operatives need more access is precisely the opposite and is to protect their own fellow-citizens.

Why nor implant tiny GPS devices at birth. Then at some future point they could be switched on if an individual was deemed to be dangerous. Why not encourage people to write reports on their friends and neighbours, then allow the security forces access to them should someone be found to be a threat.

[Simon]

the things I was referring to were the very obvious things.........reducing pension rights, privatising the NHS without asking, trebling tuition fees, instigating fuel crises, fighting wars on spurious grounds. Nothing controversial.Just run of the mill bad things.

Reducing pension rights - had to be done, or the money would have run out. That's reality, as opposed to the last lot's "spend what we don't have and rack up the credit" policy which has caused all the mess we're now in. (And which similar policy, incidentally, caused the problems in Greece when their own brand of socialist spendthrifts did it - but unfortunately the Greeks didn't have the chance to vote in a government with the guts to stop it in the nick of time).

Privatising the NHS - isn't happening, despite what you read in the Daily Mirror!

Trebling tuition fees - had to happen, and FE is still free via the loan scheme until people can really afford to pay it back. Again, there was no money to keep going as we were: as the outgoing Treasury team said, "there's no money left". They'd hocked us up to our necks.

Instigating fuel crises - ignoring thr plural, this episode of silliness has come about due to hysteria in the media and the stupidity of a lot of people, based on a throwaway remark by one politician. Hardly a major piece of evil intent!

Fighhting wars on spurious grounds - not sure which one you mean, but the only one that the present Government has started was to topple an evil dictator who was killing his own people in Libya. Allowing for the expected settling down period, currently ongoing, it worked very well, cost no British lives from direct action and saved thousands of Libyan innocents from a grisly fate. So if you think that's bad, I wonder what planet you're on.

Next...

[MrGongGong]

I wonder what planet you're on.

I guess you must feel very alone sad little simon

[Simon]

Why nor implant tiny GPS devices at birth. Then at some future point they could be switched on if an individual was deemed to be dangerous.

To answer a silly questrion with a gravity it doesn't deserve, because that would be too great an infringement of liberty in a democratic and generally free society and because nobody from the security services would wish to get involved in it.

Why not encourage people to write reports on their friends and neighbours, then allow the security forces access to them should someone be found to be a threat.

The current system, where people can report anything that concerns them to the police, is perfectly adequate in Britain, where there has always been care to balance the needs of security and safety with the freedoms of the individuals. Irrespective of the silly claims and exaggerations of some of a "liberal" bent...

[Simon]

I wonder why the Tories kicked up such a fuss about it when Labour tried to introduce the same legislation a few years back ...

Oh, I hadn't read your final paragraph. Labour were doing it, of course, to prop up their regime against their own citizens, whereas the Tories are doing it to protect their fellow citizens. Perhaps?

Perhaps not. And it wasn't the same legislation. And times have changed - such initiatives are even more necessary now.

[Stunsworth]

And times have changed - such initiatives are even more necessary now.

What is it that's changed in the last couple of years to warrant the new legislation?

[Simon]

Well, that's the end of any discussion then. Simon is right, and everybody else is, by definition, illogical.

Not at all - if you or anyone else can come up with a rational or logical argument, based on need and facts, as opposed to a knee-jerk emotional response based on anti-authority liberalism, I'd be happy to read it and evaluate it. If it were convincing, I'd have to accept it.

[Simon]

What is it that's changed in the last couple of years to warrant the new legislation?

The major factor, Steve, is the growth of internet usage. In the Middle East and Asia, intenet access has doubled in the past three years. People of evil intent form groups and transmit intelligence via forums, blogs and comments, often coded. Mobile phones are useful to them, but it's common knowledge that calls are relatively easily traceable, so they've found other ways. That's why a knowledge of where people visit would be so useful. Patterns would become evident.