Composers' unloved children

[LeMartinPecheur]

IGI: Carnival of the Animals is definitely a close miss on the strict terms of this thread From our day S-S may seem to have been prescient about the popularity of the work, though I'd guess at the time he was more worried about damage to his own high-art (or maybe highbrow? S-S highbrow? ) reputation!

[3rd Viennese School]

Peter didnt think much of his 1812 Overture.
He prefered the Serenade for Strings written at the same time.

(for me 1812. Always go for the noisy one! )

3VS

[Bryn]

I once read that Edgard Varese destroyed everything he composed before "Ameriques"; but a programme devoted to his music last year managed to discover a single song Varese composed in 1906. I would be fascinated to know if anything else from that early period survived.

Un grand sommeil noir only survived because it had been published (in a newspaper, IIRC). His symphonic poem Bourgogne was performed in Berlin in 1911 and he retained the score for some time, but eventually destroyed it. I suppose there is a very slim chance of some of the orchestral parts turning up, but I doubt it.

Oh, and Un grand sommeil noir was included in the Varèse and Ravel survey directed by David Atherton on the South Bank, back in the late '70s or early '80s. It is not something that had only recently turned up.

[gurnemanz]

I'm not sure if Vaughan Williams' Fourth counts as a successful "child", but the composer did famously comment: "I don't know if I like it, but it's what I meant."

[Pabmusic]

...there’s a strong political edge, highlighting Elgar’s feeling of disillusionment that ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ (his ‘Pomp & Circumstance March’ with added lyrics he hated) was being used to dress up the empty jingoism of a government sending young men to the Great War. The juxtaposition of the flag-waving anthem against archive footage of blinded casualties hanging on to one another makes a powerful and still-relevant point about the human price of ideological posturing.[/I]

It's a little risky going to Ken Russell for an authoritative view of Elgar's thoughts on P & C 1. The Monitor film is powerful, but Ken Russell links the march to WW1 to suggest a view that Elgar probably didn't share. Early in the war, he actually suggested that the soldiers could go to hell for all he cared, but he was distraught at the number of horses that would suffer.

The incident that sparked off the Ken Russell scene occurred in 1924, at the rehearsal for the opening of the Empire Exhibition in the newly finished Wembley Stadium. Elgar was taking part and had written the Empire March for the occasion, but it wasn't played because (as he wrote to Alice Stuart-Wortley) "the K[ing] insists on Land of Hope". The same letter contains this wonderful passage:

“I was standing alone (criticising) in the middle of the enormous stadium in the sun: all the ridiculous Court programme, soldiers, awnings etc: 17,000 men hammering – loud speakers, amplifiers – four aeroplanes circling over etc etc – all mechanical & horrible – no soul & no romance & no imagination. Here had been played the great football match – even the turf, which is good, was not there as turf but for football – but at my feet I saw a group of real daisies. Something wet rolled down my cheek - & I am not ashamed of it: I had recovered my equanimity when the aides came to learn my views – Damn everything except the daisy – I was back in something sane, wholesome & GENTLEMANLY – but only for two minutes.”

There was another famous occasion when he had to play Land of Hope against his wishes. When the Abbey Road studios opened in 1931, Elgar was the first recording artist, engaged to record Falstaff with the LSO. Pathe wanted to film the occasion, but insisted on Elgar conducting Land of Hope, rather than film part of Falstaff. So we have the famous old film of Elgar rather wearily conducting the trio of P & C 1 ("please play this tune as though you've never heard it befoower"). As soon as Pathe left, they recorded Falstaff.

[Cassander]

Sinding and 'Rustle of Spring'? I may be conflating recall of Rach's prelude, but I think he sold rights to a publisher 'for a song', when he could have lived on the proceeds for life. It ain't fair.
Sullivan and his Savoy collaborations; surely Widor and his toccata (5th organ symph). Perhaps some were just glad to receive some contemporary recognition / success though.
Probably it's been the case with most short / 'light 'works that composers have felt overshadowed 'magna opera' that they laboured to produce, or if they were badgered to discuss / reprise a bonne bouche long after its creation.
There's a relevant web-link at http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbt...te_id/1#import

[Serial_Apologist]

Un grand sommeil noir only survived because it had been published (in a newspaper, IIRC). His symphonic poem Bourgogne was performed in Berlin in 1911 and he retained the score for some time, but eventually destroyed it. I suppose there is a very slim chance of some of the orchestral parts turning up, but I doubt it.

Oh, and Un grand sommeil noir was included in the Varèse and Ravel survey directed by David Atherton on the South Bank, back in the late '70s or early '80s. It is not something that had only recently turned up.

Thanks for that, Bryn. Very interesting.

[Bryn]

I suppose a trio of 'unloved children' from Varèse would be Dance for Burgess, Tuning Up and Étude pour espace, all of which owe their current performing versions to his erstwhile student, Chou Wen-chung and can be seen and heard here: http://cultura.nps.nl/page/tv-gids/780003

[gradus]

Paul Dukas was I think highly self-critical and destroyed a great deal of his work.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Sinding and 'Rustle of Spring'? I may be conflating recall of Rach's prelude, but I think he sold rights to a publisher 'for a song', when he could have lived on the proceeds for life. It ain't fair.
Sullivan and his Savoy collaborations; surely Widor and his toccata (5th organ symph). Perhaps some were just glad to receive some contemporary recognition / success though.
Probably it's been the case with most short / 'light 'works that composers have felt overshadowed 'magna opera' that they laboured to produce, or if they were badgered to discuss / reprise a bonne bouche long after its creation.
There's a relevant web-link at http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbt...te_id/1#import

Cassander: thanks for that, particularly for the interesting link. Welcome to these boards!

There looks to be an interesting new thread in the issue you raise of mega-popular pieces that made fortunes for publishers but only pennies for their composers: would you care to start it??

[Cassander]

Yes, I'll get on to that, thank you for expressing interest.
The converse is 'works overvalued by their composers', who may not always be the best judges of their own creations, e.g. Sullivan's preference for his opera Ivanhoe and oratorios / cantatas such as 'The Light of the world' and 'Golden Legend' to his Savoy collborations. Discretion is needed though, as other listeners may rate his weightier fare more highly than I.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Sinding and 'Rustle of Spring'? I may be conflating recall of Rach's prelude, but I think he sold rights to a publisher 'for a song', when he could have lived on the proceeds for life. It ain't fair.

This was certainly the case for Elgar's Salut d'Amour. Aldo, his Carillon royalties were given away to a war charity and it was extremely popular.

[Pabmusic]

This was certainly the case for Elgar's Salut d'Amour. Aldo, his Carillon royalties were given away to a war charity and it was extremely popular.

Very true. It was the case with most of Elgar's early violin and piano pieces. However, Schotts were very decent about Salut d'Amour and gave Elgar a royalty from about 1900 onwards (that's twelve years after he sold them the piece). I suspect they were trying to encourage Elgar to put something big their way, but it didn't work.