Oi! what you .......................!

[Lateralthinking1]

What did you expect, after he'd made a bit of cash that BB was going to live in a multi-story in Billericay or somewhere? Get real guys! Would you?

So let's get this right. Everything that has spewed from his mouth since 1984 suggested Clarence House by the Sea. Much. We paid for that. I feel exploited by it. I see the subjects of his material as exploited by it to an even greater extent.

As people point out, there's also not a black face in sight there. So much for the rhetoric of multiculturalism. Nick Griffin could live there to his heart's content for ever more.

I've noticed that he is quick to accuse people of being abusive.

What he fails to acknowledge is that it is possible to feel that the situation is entirely the reverse - and far more seriously so than mere words - when "blokes" like him preach one thing and do the very opposite.

At least the facile Phil Collins was true to his values, not that they amounted to anything significant.

Footnote - If I won the national lottery, I wouldn't buy a place like that on principle. I'd be very unhappy in it. In fact, I'd feel ashamed, knowing that it was a really extreme symbol of what the vast majority of people didn't have.

[John Wright]

well the origin of the term is hardly to be settled, nor is it relevant, here .... the use is polemical ...

Eh, clearly he thought it WAS relevant when he quoted what he THOUGHT was the etymology. The 'polemic' version, you see, could have ben invented by either side, for their own purpose.

It's a poor arguement that has to rely on urban myths!

and that track is a very fine piece of polemic i think ..... especially the line 'my manor's ill' .... a brilliant encapsulation of the country imv ... the artist is an intelligent and articulate young man who is contributing greatly to our polis and culture ...

I still can't catch the lyric. I suppose the intended audience (chavs and left wing activists) might catch it or assume what it's all about.

I do apprecite the anti-Cameron content, the video is masterfully compiled in those sections, but the problem with the video is what impression it would give to some people who viewed it, and might see it glorifying the despicable images of riot - think if you were any of the hundreds of people who lose their job as a result of the destruction, or one of the dozens of people who lost their business, or if you were family of the several people who were murdered.

Care should be taken when getting one's message across, think of not just who you are aiming at, but who else might see it, and might misinterpret or distort the intention.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

well is suppose john wright that as the origin of the term is unresolvable all uses of it are polemic including yours on more than just the substantive level ...

i find your comment that he should be careful getting his message across utterly laughable in the world of the Murdochs Desmonds Trinity Mirrors and the rest of those bleeders ... a very good case could be made for the careful analysis and precision of language in this piece ...

[Lateralthinking1]

IMAGES OF RIOT - MPs SMASH IT UP AGAIN

But first...........

Educate, activate, hibernate - The strange death of protest in music.

An allegory from history if ever there was one. I did see this band live in York in 1984. Still have the cd. Two key points. One, the main man is alleged to be back there and living as a recluse with his mother. Two, many Conservative members of the Cabinet claim to have been big fans of the genre. Vaizey is quoted here in a way that makes the blood turn to ice.

http://observationalism.com/2008/10/07/the-tragic-mystery-of-the-redskins-or-no-socialism-in-our-time/

And now for something completely different.........

Who wants to be a millionaire? They don't. They are already.

There was a discussion on the forum a short while ago about millionaires in the Cabinet. Someone mentioned them. Another said that there weren't that many. Nobody commented on that assertion. So here now is comment via the Daily Mail. -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1280554/The-coalition-millionaires-23-29-member-new-cabinet-worth-1m--Lib-Dems-just-wealthy-Tories.html

And some news just in........

Coalition to sell England to a few mates for as much as a fiver.

(don't worry people - the Royal Family will still be publically funded)

Yes it is true. Gloucestershire is about to become a part of Greater Germany. Cheshire will be a part of China, Rutland a part of Russia and Sussex a part of Scotland, Slovakia, Somalia or Spain. The announcement is timed to divert attention from the day the NHS goes to Nevada. Whatever next? An invitation to Greece to buy a job lot of village greens? Must be on the cards.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/mar/19/david-cameron-sell-off-roads?commentpage=3#start-of-comments

Health warning : don't try this at home..........

The Rough Guide to Turning a Democracy into a Dictatorship.

Coalition Agreement - Roads sell-off not in the transport pledges - http://www.rua.org.uk/index.php?opti...licy&Itemid=65

Lib Dem Manifesto - Roads sell-off not in the transport pledges - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/elec...manifesto.html

Conservative Manifesto - Roads sell-off not in the transport pledges - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/elec...manifesto.html

VOTING IN THE FUTURE - NO POINT - JUST SAY NO

[johncorrigan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWtCittJyr0

[Lateralthinking1]

Osborne orders demolition of all English countryside -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/hands-off-our-land/9151464/Hands-Off-Our-Land-Frustrated-Osborne-vows-to-make-building-on-countryside-easier-as-cracks-show-in-Government.html

A source close to the Government said -

"It's great news for developers. I genuinely believe that he wants them to rip the eyeballs out of the countryside. Remove every single blade of grass. Tear all its remaining limbs. Back in 2010, the hope had been that fascists from Eastern Europe would take over and save Ministers from making tough decisions. Now the debate has moved on. They decided to get rid of Hilton and then do the country over to the point where nothing could be done to save it. No point then in ever having an invasive election again."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jffuzq2GpBI&feature=related

[johncorrigan]

Thanks for the stimulating material in this string - Plan B's video is very powerful and I've been interested in what my kids think and that area where we create enemies from within our society.

I was interested in Marilynne Robinson's piece in the Guardian Review on Saturday on Austerity and the effect on Culture which was very thought provoking for me. Here's a short section:

<<<In the contemporary world nothing of significance occurs in isolation. Austerity is the big word throughout the west these days, with the implicit claim that what ever the Austerity managers take to be inessential is inessential indeed, and that what ever can be transformed from public wealth into private affluence is suddenly an insupportable public burden and should and must be put on the block. Everywhere the crisis of the private financial system has been transformed into a tale of slovenly and overweening government that perpetuates and is perpetuated by a dependent and demanding population. This is an amazing transformation of the terms in which our circumstance is to be understood. For about 10 days the crisis was interpreted as a consequence of the ineptitude of the highly paid, and then it transmogrified into a grudge against the populace at large, whose lassitude was bearing the society down to ruin. A few days ago, in Iowa, I saw a pickup truck with a bumper sticker that read "Don't distribute my wealth. Distribute my work ethic". Iowa, as it happens, is famous for its work ethic, in a country whose attachment to work is so intense it is considered by some an affliction. But in the strange alembic of this moment, the populace at large is thought of by a significant part of this same population as a burden, a threat to their wellbeing, to their "values".>>>

Here's the whole article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/mar/16/culture-credit-crunch-marilynne-robinson

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

and whatever happened to those other words thrift and prudence .... rather more of both may have left us with rather less austerity eh Gordon?

a substantial reason the debt burden is high [interest and repayments] is the big chunk of £bns to finance the banks and prevent the collapse of a bankrupt capitalism ... the language concocted by Mervyn King Gus O'Donnell Osborne Cameron and Clegg of 'National Emergency' is not going to withstand the actions of this government in favouring capital over people, property over community and the rich over the poor .. i disagree with the lady in the G .... where was she through the eighties nineties and noughties when welfare cheating was driving ordinary voters nuts and the obscenity of housing supplements etc etc .... that is not a reaction to the crisis .... we may not have had the real crisis yet ...... it unfolds ....

Plan B has precisely identified a major moral flaw in our present government ....

[John Wright]

well is suppose john wright that as the origin of the term is unresolvable all uses of it are polemic including yours on more than just the substantive level ...

Mine? No.

i find your comment that he should be careful getting his message across utterly laughable in the world of the Murdochs Desmonds Trinity Mirrors and the rest of those bleeders ... a very good case could be made for the careful analysis and precision of language in this piece ...

So you have no real response to my comment. Do you have no care for the feelings of the the jobless and bereaved caused by the riots?

What about the song's lyric, can we have it?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

What about the song's lyric, can we have it?

here

[Serial_Apologist]

here

Ingenuous simple word association linkeages in verse 1 especially. You got to be quick though, which is what this genre is all about, hence my Cheshire Homes plea, but as I was.....

OI! - Looting and Luton? The little sod - he just nicked my rhyme!

[Lateralthinking1]

You cant live in a home which should not have been built by the bourgeois clerks who bear no guilt.
When the wind hits this building, this building it tilts. One day it will surely fall to the ground.

Ah yes, one day, one day. How time flies. The date of that release - 12 December 1980.

......So then that was The Clash in the month of my 18th birthday. And here is the to be respected Plan B and I'm now 49. And if I get to 80, which is highly unlikely, what then I wonder? Sadly, probably just another going around. No, not probably, it's a banker.

That song incidentally had real resonance for me. It has the howl of the wind as it drives down stairwells. The whoosh of litter spread. What it manages to capture in its punkish way is ghoulishly uncanny. Strummer and Jones were great because they had such an ear for the cinematography of sound.

My Nan was 90. A decent home pulled down because the authorities decided it was in slum land. Chucked up onto the sixth floor of a block where the lifts never worked. Struggling to walk up and down daily. The crashing of the communal shoot every few minutes. Night workers playing rock at one and two o'clock in the morning.

One thing that I will always remember at any given time is that there are people just like her too there now. It is probably the main reason why in 25 years of working in Westminster, I never fully assimilated. Absolutely on principle, I carry a permanent chip on my shoulder and have done since university. But only youth can really speak in culture on behalf of all concerned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfMA9nYzo2M

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

that video should be in Tate Modern NOW [it will likely be banned any time now when some idiot with an iron deficit throws a bottle full of burning petrol]

[teamsaint]

went to the footy at Millwall on saturday. First trip there.

The train ride from London Bridge to South Bermonsey.......it looks like east Berlin, but with less space between the blocks. Really.

Osborne, cameron, and the rest , including the royal family should be made to live there for 10 years.

No wonder the millwall fans seem like angry people.

[handsomefortune]

john wright,

I still can't catch the lyric. I suppose the intended audience (chavs and left wing activists) might catch it or assume what it's all about.

the lyrics typically tumble, fast-paced, agreed, adults are not required to 'enjoy it' necessarily. but it is in english! whereas there's lots of music that we genuinely can't understand, from new migrant communities, sometimes whose countries the UK may have assisted to decline. this is deeply unfortunate for peaceful souls everywhere.

imv there aren't the excuses that might be plausable if the lyrics were really in 'a foreign tongue' in any links to examples of current youth backlash on this thread. (though now you have been furnished with the lyrics, in written form) perhaps consider: if 'plan b' style music is not particularly present in the mainstream, we can logically assume that much more irresponsible rap sentiments (& pc games), courtesy of US corporations are apparently prefered? that is, over and above 'politically sensitive' but responsible domestic 'rap with a conscience', unfortunately. (whereas US domination of youth culture + UK mass unemployment + dissaffection = disaster for the majority of UK citizens who 'don't fit' the US pc game/rap narrative). therefore, surely you'd have to be insane not to allow british kids an outlet for expression, and a unique UK identity imv.

though out of context, perhaps things might look very different on the surface, and to older adults especially.

i disagree with your pov, in that i assume the 'intended audience' is the author's peers, and anyone else, here or abroad, who identifies with the 'warning' that 'plan b'/film makers carefully illustrate.

your notion that 'left wing activists' might be the target audience for 'plan b' is curious imv. though it's a suprisingly common assumption, especially of late. it demonstrates the same faulty logic that problems in our education system & increasing unemployment are somehow 'remedied' by ditching the very staff that help oil the wheels to class control, and the distinct possibility of children learning; or later having access to quality support towards accessing a job, other than jc+.

glorifying the despicable images of riot - think if you were any of the hundreds of people who lose their job as a result of the destruction, or one of the dozens of people who lost their business, or if you were family of the several people who were murdered.

imv the 'problem' with your quote above, is that 'thinking'actually emphasises the gravity of UK job losses, and a sense of loss generally, because of govt policy, and the £/$ crash. not as you intend, the comparitively few, tragically, or fatally affected at the mercy of sociopathic opportunists at summer riots. this far, numerically, the two statistics are hardly comparable.

but yes, i agree that a wider empathy is required, and that's why a sense of 'inclusivity' is so important. *as illustrated by john corrigan's link to the US professor's full article upthread.

surely your 'worry' john wright, might just entirely contradict your implied cynicism as regards the role of 'left wing activists'? if you imagine, even for a moment, that they are the intended recipients, or intended audience, consumers of 'plan B's message? concerned journalists with a social conscience and community workers alike, are hardly the intended audience, for current music made by UK youth! why ever would professional adults need to be informed of matters by 'plan b' exactly?

of late, community workers were (past tense) employed, attempting to 'mop up', after the greed, and 'spillage' from UK govt, and global banking 'mistakes'. closing community cntres, routes/£ for education, combined with increasing unemployment, quickly lead to total social disintegration (as evidenced in horrific utube clips of larger US cities, depicting acute neglect of US citizens, as sensationalised, exploited by major US labels, selling rubbish to children around the world). imv let's not copy that hideous, and exploitative example, creatively, or IRL, if at all possible. writing articles about these problems is arguably safer than actually working amongst disaffected people, supported only by adhering to the wisdom and traditions established mainly by the left, post war in this country. for qualified community workers this includes relevant theory, and practical qualifications, none of which EVER implies that 'violence is a solution'. yet, govt has removed all possibility of promoting this positive message, which is what's actually dangerous, as in treacherous for the majority. not 'plan b' per se.

imv john corrigan's *article expresses precisely the route that everyone in blighty absolutely dreads heading down, .....apart from govt. perhaps the author needs locking up?

essentially, leaving ever larger sections of disaffected youth, to fend for themselves entirely is disastrous. it's also important to remember that there is a distinct dfference between 'disaffection', and 'criminality'. it's never at all useful to conflate the two, but so often happens lately. (if you doubt this john wright, perhaps listen to sunday's 'desert island discs' and anna ford's acknowlegment of her political involvement in the causes of her youth, including active political protest. yet would you call anna ford's disaffection 'criminal', prefer she was locked up)?

i hope you can appreciate 'plan b' in these contexts outlined, and in a different light.

it's worth bearing in mind that only in an educational, AND emotionally supportive context, such as a well established community cntre typically provides, that any access to, or positive guidance is at all possible, via 1-1 with UK youth. 'face to face' communication is(was) accessed at community cntres, rather than large, busy schools, with the emphasis ......elsewhere, sadly. whereas in a community cntre environment, uk youth might just listen (albeit for some, possibly for a nano second) to your legitimate criticism, that 'glorification of violence' etc might not be that good an idea longterm? even if kids listening to adults, do so initially just as a ploy to gain access to a centre's digital music/film technology. suprisingly, you only need a couple of kids to excell, and their example of success despite the odds, enthuses, turns around the expectations of peers. so imv creative activities are a sound investment; as are youth radio stations; sports etc. in this context, 'plan b' etc provide a 'responsible role models' - are not just 'troublemakers'.

however, i do totally agree that 'care is needed in getting a message across'.

*an interesting article, especially when read in full, john corrigan. thanks! but perhaps the 'too late' warning, in comments below, is apt in view of the current govt? at some point, govts, and the mysterious, faceless powers that own them, may have to contemplate the maths of being seriously outnumbered? yet worryingly, you don't hear much about this numerical equation generally do you?