Govt. Health Warnings. Should we take them with a pinch of salt?

[Mr Pee]

I'm about to pop a Pizza in the oven and open a bottle of wine.

If there are no further posts from me in the next 24 hours, you should assume that this combination has lived up to its deadly reputation, and that I am no longer of this world.

And just in case I don't make it to the morning, may I say that it's been a pleasure. Most of the time.

[Petrushka]

A friend if mine who works as a doctor's receptionist has told me that the doctors themselves eat biscuits, cakes etc in their coffee breaks and don't seem to take much notice of the advice that they dish out to the rest of us.

[Bryn]

A friend if mine who works as a doctor's receptionist has told me that the doctors themselves eat biscuits, cakes etc in their coffee breaks and don't seem to take much notice of the advice that they dish out to the rest of us.

Far too many of them still smoke tobacco, and many drink alcohol to excess. Not Flay, of course.

[jayne lee wilson]

Very heartened to see the healthy attitudes to government advice here! I'm off to make the hottest, richest, butteriest Chicken Phal I can bear to eat with the perfect accompaniment - the rest of the Brindisi I opened to keep me warm and happy in the garden/at the computer this afternoon... with Chocolate Haagen-Dazs and (the rest of the) Courvoisier to follow.

[Lateralthinking1]

I'm currently much enjoying the flights of fancy in Hugh F-W's Veg Book. HS!

Not a Hugh fan but I did have an interesting chat a few years ago in Burton Bradstock. The only time in my life when I will ever discuss meat for two hours with a husband and wife team of farmers/butchers. They knew him and had permitted filming for his television series on their land.

I was advised by them that if I insisted on buying meat from a big store to only get it in Marks and Spencer and Waitrose. They considered everything else to be dodgy. Look out especially for the word "produced" as in "produced in the United Kingdom" which generally means that it has been shipped across, left frozen for ages, and packaged here.

On the more general point, our advisers would do better to get all the other things right. That would make a world of difference to national health. Good eating of course is important but so is every input, chosen and otherwise.

[Pabmusic]

As with all this sort of research, HS ask yourself

who funded it?

what is the size of the sample and is it truly representative?

There is no doubt that high levels of sodium in our diet can contribute to high blood pressure, for example. And this can result in kidney damage, strokes, heart attacks etc in susceptible individuals. The answer is not only to cut down on your own daily intake of added salt but also to be aware of how much hidden salt there is your diet and to avoid excess.

But in general I agree with the points that you are making about food being a joy not least in relation to our quality of life. If your regular medical overhauil shows that nothing drastic is going wrong, then you probably are doing nothing wrong. That doesn't mean however that your diet is right for everyone.

This site is interesting (as is his book): http://www.badscience.net/

Our bodies need salt, sugar and cholesterol. We die without them. Problem is that five million years of human evolution has left us with metabolic systems attuned to holding on to fat (to help us through periods of famine) and a natural tendency to excess (because you don't know where the next meal's coming from). So its not surprising we modern humans overdo things - because we can - and have problems because of it. Salt can be a killer (it's not so long ago that a mother was convicted of killing her child with salt), but it's more dangerous for some because they are already at risk from (say) obesity, diabetes or a host of other conditions. I had a stroke in 2008 caused by high blood pressure, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. No doubt I ate too much salt (snack foods are the biggest culprits) and fat, but there were other things that were more immediate - long-term stress, mainly. But I do wish now that I'd eaten less salt and fat.

Government warnings can be confusing because (1) they change over time in the light of new research or thinking, and (2) most of us know someone who smoked/drank/ate fried breakfasts (or whatever else) all their life, but lived to a ripe old age. (We probably have also known people who died/had a heart attack/had a stroke in their 40s, 50s or 60s, but we usually seem less prepared to make the connexion.) It's all too easy to dismiss them as nonsense because of this.

I've just (a couple of days ago) stuck a piece of blue masking tape round my wine glass to mark 125ml. Coop's Côte du Rhône, at 13.5%, is 1.7 units for each 125ml. That means one unit is ... a small mouthful.

Yes - it does seem so, doesn't it? But it's not many years since 125ml was a standard wine-glass. That was the usual pub/restaurant measure A bottle gave you 6-8 glasses (I speak from experience). Now it's common to drink in 250ml measures - that's a third of a bottle in each glass. Add to that the fact that wine strength used to be (again from experience): white = 8.5%-12%, with 10-11.5% being most common; red = 10%-13%, with 11-12.5% being most common. Today, we drink stronger wine in larger measures - hence we have to adjust our perception of a "unit". [Beer drinkers can't escape, either - 3%-4% was the usual strength in the 1960s and 70s. Now it's difficult to find much at less than 4.5%.]

I say everything in moderation.

[johnb]

....Yes - it does seem so, doesn't it? But it's not many years since 125ml was a standard wine-glass. That was the usual pub/restaurant measure A bottle gave you 6-8 glasses (I speak from experience). Now it's common to drink in 250ml measures - that's a third of a bottle in each glass. Add to that the fact that wine strength used to be (again from experience): white = 8.5%-12%, with 10-11.5% being most common; red = 10%-13%, with 11-12.5% being most common. Today, we drink stronger wine in larger measures - hence we have to adjust our perception of a "unit". [Beer drinkers can't escape, either - 3%-4% was the usual strength in the 1960s and 70s. Now it's difficult to find much at less than 4.5%.]

It seems that there is a major gripe amongst (some) wine devotees that the alcoholic content of red wine seems to be ever increasing - frequently 14.5% or even 15%. (Subtlety and elegance seem to be sacrificed more and more to block-buster sensation.)

[Roehre]

We cannot live without water.
But: too much and you drown.
I haven't seen any warning yet.
How long will it take before some thinktank reports that water is bad for us?
1 or 2 years?

[Pabmusic]

It seems that there is a major gripe amongst (some) wine devotees that the alcoholic content of red wine seems to be ever increasing - frequently 14.5% or even 15%. (Subtlety and elegance seem to be sacrificed more and more to block-buster sensation.)

I remember having a barolo in about 1984 that was 14%. That was so very unusual that I shared it with others just on its strength - "Try this, it's really strong". General feeling was that it was too strong.

[scottycelt]

The recent horrific coach crash in Switzerland wiping out so many young kids, and the dreadful slaughter in Syria etc, makes you quickly realise just how silly is all this often conflicting 'health advice'.

I have come to the conclusion that even if I drop dead now I've been much luckier than so many others and, like Hornspieler, I'm going to celebrate that good fortune by partaking of the food and drink which I really enjoy. We are all dying anyway.

I suspect that some impressionable people are probably more likely to die prematurely worrying about getting the oft-advertised dreaded diseases than actually falling victim to these, themselves.

So it's lashings of salt on my porridge, huge rump steaks, and generous amounts of decent beer and whisky for me ... the doctors and medical scientists can do what they like.

[salymap]

During WW2 as a young schoolgirl I was horrified to be offered a carrot, dipped in Golden Syrup, as a healthy break-time snack. I realised that bananas and oranges were unobtainable but told my teacher politely that I'd rather go hungry.
In Domestic Science we were taught to make 'potato pastry' 'mock bananas' [Sweet pastry tubes filled with mock cream] and other horrors.
Be thankful for the wide choice of food today, eat what you fancy within limits, enjoy life while you're here.

[Mr Pee]

We cannot live without water.
But: too much and you drown.
I haven't seen any warning yet.
How long will it take before some thinktank reports that water is bad for us?
1 or 2 years?

It's happened already.......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2014112/Drinking-water-bad-health-Benefits-myth.html

[Hornspieler]

The recent horrific coach crash in Switzerland wiping out so many young kids, and the dreadful slaughter in Syria etc, makes you quickly realise just how silly is all this often conflicting 'health advice'.

I have come to the conclusion that even if I drop dead now I've been much luckier than so many others and, like Hornspieler, I'm going to celebrate that good fortune by partaking of the food and drink which I really enjoy. We are all dying anyway.

I suspect that some impressionable people are probably more likely to die prematurely worrying about getting the oft-advertised dreaded diseases than actually falling victim to these, themselves.

So it's lashings of salt on my porridge, huge rump steaks, and generous amounts of decent beer and whisky for me ... the doctors and medical scientists can do what they like.

I would never have thought that this thread would take off so well.

Cheers, everybody!


HS (hic)

[rauschwerk]

It's happened already.......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...fits-myth.html

I think it's pretty well established by now that the oft-quoted recommended daily water intake includes water present in solid food. It doesn't explain that at all well in the Mail article. There seems now to be a thorough confusion between thirst and dehydration in the minds of many - so much so that some people can't even walk down the street without clutching a bottle.

[rauschwerk]

A friend if mine who works as a doctor's receptionist has told me that the doctors themselves eat biscuits, cakes etc in their coffee breaks and don't seem to take much notice of the advice that they dish out to the rest of us.

A GP I once consulted told me that one definition of an alcoholic is someone who drinks more than his doctor.