Railway services 'reforms'

[Flosshilde]

Transport secretary Justine Greening has revealed proposals for improving rail services. These include closing station booking offices, & selling tickets in libraries. Perhaps she should have a word with Jeremy Hunt (is that the right Hunt?) to check if there are going to be any libraries left.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/08/rail-industry-savings-government-plans

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/892603-peak-hours-train-rates-to-start-earlier-and-cost-more-under-new-government-plans

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I always think the Tories couldn't get even more stupid, but then they do.

[JFLL]

Transport secretary Justine Greening has revealed proposals for improving rail services. These include closing station booking offices, & selling tickets in libraries. Perhaps she should have a word with Jeremy Hunt (is that the right Hunt?) to check if there are going to be any libraries left.

And I suppose what few books there are left in libraries will be moved to railway stations. After all, libraries, we're told by the populists, are too 'off-putting', 'inaccessible', 'stuffy'. Now where have I heard that argument before?

[cloughie]

And I suppose what few books there are left in libraries will be moved to railway stations. After all, libraries, we're told by the populists, are too 'off-putting', 'inaccessible', 'stuffy'. Now where have I heard that argument before?

Don't confuse a library with a booking office.

[teamsaint]

And I suppose what few books there are left in libraries will be moved to railway stations. After all, libraries, we're told by the populists, are too 'off-putting', 'inaccessible', 'stuffy'. Now where have I heard that argument before?

They would have saved a lot of time if they had just said, " we don't want to spend money on trains. Us well off folks can afford the best times when we need to get to the city, and the poor people can go hang, or car share".

A day return from salisbury to waterloo is £70

That a day and a half pay on minimum wage........before tax !!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I always think the Tories couldn't get even more stupid, but then they do.

You've got to hand it to them: they do like a challenge!

[DracoM]

Do you think they've worked out that some places in UK eg Ultima Thule are major destinations of the tourist trade, and one of the real problems is availability of tickets in places where someone is prepared to help tourists with language / journey changes / delays etc etc. Will train companies be sensitive to this? Their past record in maintaining train services to and from such destination let alone the infra structure to support those services is to say the last patchy.

[Flosshilde]

I'm not sure that sending people to the library, which, if it's open at all, will possibly only be open on a few days a week, probably close for the day before trains stop running, be staffed by volunteers who won't have a scooby about the complexity of tickets available & possibly be some distance from the station will be at all helpfull to tourists (or residents).

Oh, & if anyone expects to travel to Ultima Thule by train they are in for a disappointment. The railway might run through it, but the trains ain't gonna stop - it hasn't got a station.

[ahinton]

But trains are for the little people, aren't they?

(JOKE!...)

Actually, though, I'm not so sure how good or bad a thing the closing of certain ticket offices might be. because I don't know what proportion of train customers purchase their travel tickets online nowadays. Most people purchase their air tickets that way, so I'd not be so surprised if they do so for train journeys as well. If this is the case and makes for less need for actual ticket offices, I'd say there's an argument for closing some. Much depends however, on the extent of their use; there's obviously no sense in closing a heavily used ticket office.

Fare structures in Britain are at least as much in need of simplification as taxes and, when they get to the point that, if you play it right, you can purchase a first class ticket for less than a standard class one (as I've been able to do on occasion), something's clearly amiss. Many fares are also quite unrealistically high and often encourage those planning to undertake longer journeys to fly instead; there seems to be no sense of competition between the train companies and the airlines.

[Flosshilde]

I think fares do need sorting out - one can often get cheaper tickets by splitting a journey into two (or more) sections, even if you travel by the same train all the way. But it's only possible to do this really if you have time to spend a day juggling options - I was only able to do this at work; since I retired I don't have time

But when I use a ticket office the staff are normally helpfull and patient.

The minister wants to introduce London oyster-card style tickets (where you simply touch a card on the reader). This is OK if you have a flat fare, or a simple fare. When you introduce discount cards (over 60s, student, armed forces, etc etc), 'airline style' fares, or even the current variety of options, it would be impossible.

The proposals bear all the hallmarks of ConLib government policy - a few ideas chucked together without thinking through how they will work. The next government is going to have a hell of a mess to sort out.

[cloughie]

Is not the reduction in booking offices and staff on stations and trains going to be a godsend to fare dodgers?

[ahinton]

Is not the reduction in booking offices and staff on stations and trains going to be a godsend to fare dodgers?

Only if station security is also reduced; automated ticket barriers may not stop everyone from dodging fares but they do tend to prevent most of them from gaining access to trainside station areas without valid tickets for their journeys (or at least some travel ticket). Anyway, I'm not sure that these plans are supposed to reduce other station staff but, if they are, much again depends upon the extent and frequency of station use. Some train stations have only a couple of trains a day wheras many are far more widely used.

[ahinton]

I think fares do need sorting out - one can often get cheaper tickets by splitting a journey into two (or more) sections, even if you travel by the same train all the way. But it's only possible to do this really if you have time to spend a day juggling options - I was only able to do this at work; since I retired I don't have time

I know; absurd, isn't it?!

The minister wants to introduce London oyster-card style tickets (where you simply touch a card on the reader). This is OK if you have a flat fare, or a simple fare. When you introduce discount cards (over 60s, student, armed forces, etc etc), 'airline style' fares, or even the current variety of options, it would be impossible.

The proposals bear all the hallmarks of ConLib government policy - a few ideas chucked together without thinking through how they will work. The next government is going to have a hell of a mess to sort out.

So the Con-only one'll sort out the legacy mess and make a better fist of it, you reckon?(!)

[Anna]

The fare structure is complicated. I always book my tickets on line and as Flossie says I find it's cheaper to split the journey into single, advance, specified train. Last year I split a journey into: Hereford > Manchester > Darlington. Then Darlington > York > Blackburn. Then Manchester > Hereford. So five single tickets resulted in a saving of over two thirds of the cost that I would have paid on the day at a booking office. However it took a few hours working out cheapest routes and options. A tourist or a last minute passenger wouldn't be able to take advantage of this. On the plus side, every train arrived and departed exactly on time.

[ahinton]

The fare structure is complicated. I always book my tickets on line and as Flossie says I find it's cheaper to split the journey into single, advance, specified train. Last year I split a journey into: Hereford > Manchester > Darlington. Then Darlington > York > Blackburn. Then Manchester > Hereford. So five single tickets resulted in a saving of over two thirds of the cost that I would have paid on the day at a booking office. However it took a few hours working out cheapest routes and options. A tourist or a last minute passenger wouldn't be able to take advantage of this. On the plus side, every train arrived and departed exactly on time.

Whilst it's good to hear that last bit (especially the fact of trains to and from Hereford running to schedule), I imagine that your journey times were probably on something of a par with your investigation times prior to travel in figuiring out how best to purchase your travel tickets!...