Norman St John-Stevas, Baron St John of Fawsley - 1929-2012

[Guest]

I thought he had departed some years ago. An unusual man. A rather mixed legacy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/mar/05/lord-st-john-fawsley-character?newsfeed=true

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI0QPbn3Deo

[Norfolk Born]

Our local BBC news programme featured a tribute from Sir John Major, who suggested that the Baron's political success was limited, and his career in government curtailed, by his flippancy.

[gurnemanz]

I can remember him as a contributor on Frostie's TW3 ... along with Bernard Levin.

[Flosshilde]

Like Gurnemanz I thought he was already dead. & I'm rather taken aback to see that Mr Major is now a 'Sir'!

[Lateralthinking1]

Our local BBC news programme featured a tribute from Sir John Major, who suggested that the Baron's political success was limited, and his career in government curtailed, by his flippancy.

In early 1980, John Major had been an MP for less than a year. As the FT reports this evening, in May 1979, St John- Stevas had become leader of the Commons when the Conservatives returned to power. He inherited a report from its procedure committee recommending the establishment of select committees to monitor the work of government, department by department.

Astonishingly, his Labour predecessor, Michael Foot, had endeavoured to bury the proposal, saying it would undermine parliament. But St John-Stevas threw himself behind it, despite very serious misgivings from senior colleagues, and in government against the odds he secured approval for the new committee system in a free vote. The panels started work in that year.

Being in the lower sixth form studying politics in 1980, this introduction did not appear to be trifling. As a class - teacher and pupils - we concluded that it was radical and perhaps the most important move towards equalising power that could have realistically been brought into being. The system has not been as effective as one might have hoped but it has certainly stood the test of time. On occasions, it has been absolutely vital. St John-Stevas was also responsible for establishing the National Audit Office.

He was just plain wrong - or was it hopeful? - in declaring of the Conservatives "we are all wets now". His economics were not at all the same as Major's. The latter very much helped to bring us to where we are now. Major had two O'levels and claimed he was brought up in Brixton. Bizarrely, it was St John-Stevas - an intellectual gay Catholic (!) often driven in his white Rolls Royce to deliver roses to the Queen Mother before going to Parliament - who was by far the more egalitarian of the two.

[Serial_Apologist]

Farewell, dear Sinjun

You may have had all the trappings of an upper class twit, but I'm sure you meant well.

:rolleyes:

[Flosshilde]

Farewell, dear Sinjun

You may have had all the trappings of an upper class twit, but I'm sure you meant well.

I think that's a little mean-spirited. As Lat points out, he was responsible for two of the most important innovations in Parliament in modern times.

[Lateralthinking1]

Farewell, dear Sinjun, You may have had all the trappings of an upper class twit, but I'm sure you meant well. :rolleyes:

Well, yes, if anyone had been looking for the very epitome of the Conservatives' remoteness, he was the obvious choice.

He played up to it. All the grandstanding, the reaching out to royalty, the relaxed way with money, the brains trust television shows, the Catholicism and the papal style. In the modern era, he would be accused of having a closed sexuality and one that was not at all in line with his religious beliefs. As it was, few took him very seriously. Too much of a dandy.

But rather like Macmillan, he was economically sound enough. In fact, far sounder than most in all the three main parties now. In contrast to today's leaders, his breeding was such that he could look down on the upstarts and say that they were too tight. The pomposity wasn't pleasant but those then who were economically secure were less likely to engage in class battles.

And again like Macmillan there was a humour which is sadly absent in Parliament these days. It wasn't vicious. It was mischievous. He and Dave Allen were probably the only two who really made a name for themselves by impersonating the Pope, not that his was wholly intentional. It is difficult to imagine anyone in public life these days making that extra kind of effort.

In conclusion, I couldn't say that I was ever a big fan but it would be easy to think of hundreds very much worse.

Key quote - "One should not be a name-dropper, as Her Majesty remarked to me yesterday."

[mercia]

Major ......... claimed he was brought up in Brixton.

is there some doubt about that?

[Lateralthinking1]

is there some doubt about that?

mercia - He was born in St Helier Hospital which is close to Sutton and his primary school was in Cheam. Both are in the outer London Borough close to Surrey where I used to live. His senior school was at Wimbledon Chase in the London Borough of Merton. I am sure that he did spend time in Brixton early on - he may have even lived there for a while - but I always felt that the well remembered party political broadcast didn't really give the full facts.

While we are on factual matters, I have described St John-Stevas as having been gay. More accurately, the official position in the newspaper tributes is that he was widely assumed to have been gay. Whatever his flamboyance, which was probably no greater than that of Disraeli, it may be that he was celibate, particularly given his Catholicism. I don't think that there was ever a newspaper story indicating anything else. - Lat.

[amateur51]

While we are on factual matters, I have described St John-Stevas as having been gay. More accurately, the official position in the newspaper tributes is that he was widely assumed to have been gay. Whatever his flamboyance, which was probably no greater than that of Disraeli, it may be that he was celibate, particularly given his Catholicism. I don't think that there was ever a newspaper story indicating anything else. - Lat.

While not exactly evidence, the only story I know regarding Norm's being gay is as follows. He was at the Royal Opera House one evening with his new boyfriend when they bumped into Lord and Lady Carrington. Norm started to make the usual introductions and as he was introducing his boyfriend to Lady C she beamed and said "Oh we've met before!" "Really?" said Norm perplexed. "Oh yes" said Lady C " He sold me a lamp-shade in Peter Jones only this afternoon!"

Collapse of constitutional expert, apparently

[eighthobstruction]

Never important enough to be characterised/cartoonised by Steve Bell....

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/covers/full/498_big.jpg

[Globaltruth]

He does leave a 'legacy' at Emmanuel College, at which he was Master.

http://www.emma.cam.ac.uk/about/virtual/clickmap/location/?locid=30

He was the driving force behind this building.

The Queen's Building cost some £8 million - privately funded.

These costs were dramatically increased by Lord St John's insistence on re-opening the quarry in Ketton, Rutland to obtain limestone from the same source from which the college's Wren chapel was built.

[gurnemanz]

I always think of him in purple shirt but couldn't find a single photo via Google Images to illustrate it. Here's a snippet from the Guardian obit: Once, he was asked by David Frost about the colour of his shirt: "What's that – purple?" "No," replied Stevas, "crushed cardinal." (He was enrolled at a seminary in Rome for a while).

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i think that the Committee thing and the National Audit office count fr a lot and he is owed some respect and gratitude for those achievements .. i say some because his sel presentation was a profound mistake and bespoke a deeper insecurity ... had he been more truly confident he may have achieved far more ... at the time i just thought him a twat [tory]