Music in schools

[ardcarp]

There was more about the lamentable state of music in (most) state schools on In Tune this pm. Anyone else hear it?

[MrGongGong]

No
but no-one really gives a toss anyway !
(actually I was in a school running a composition project at the time !!)
the National Plan for music education in England seems to be being largely accepted by people who really should know better

(I've been to private schools with dreadful music departments as well ........... and today went to a state secondary school with a wonderful music department so it's not to do with whether you pay to go or not !)

[ardcarp]

I give several tosses!! I have a grand-daughter (with talent) in a state secondary where music is virtually non-existent. There are loads of musical kids there and they rot. It has been proved that proper study of music greatly improves other areas of study and indeed life, including concentration span, co-operation, self-discipline, etc, etc. It needs a rare combination of an enlightened head and a charismatic music teacher to achieve anything. And regrettably McG it is often whether or not you pay. There are always exceptions of course, but in general good independent schools have pretty impressive music departments. I'm not saying that as a Hurrah for public schools; far from it, being a paid-up lefty, but alas it is true. And state schools will not learn from their examples in music or anything else. It's not just to do with resources. There is an excellent music dept in a Comp not far from me, and the DoM is a genius...but he'll burn himself out one day!

[MrGongGong]

I give several tosses!! I have a grand-daughter (with talent) in a state secondary where music is virtually non-existent. There are loads of musical kids there and they rot. It has been proved that proper study of music greatly improves other areas of study and indeed life, including concentration span, co-operation, self-discipline, etc, etc. It needs a rare combination of an enlightened head and a charismatic music teacher to achieve anything. And regrettably McG it is often whether or not you pay. There are always exceptions of course, but in general good independent schools have pretty impressive music departments. I'm not saying that as a Hurrah for public schools; far from it, being a paid-up lefty, but alas it is true. And state schools will not learn from their examples in music or anything else. It's not just to do with resources. There is an excellent music dept in a Comp not far from me, and the DoM is a genius...but he'll burn himself out one day!

Did you write a submission in response to the Henley review ?
Some of us do care a lot
but alas we have people in charge who really couldn't give a toss

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Well we have Gove prattling on about how he values music and then he does all he can to dismember it, slashing government grants, and continuing his policy of never visiting a single state school (other than academies and free schools, which the buffoon still thinks are a good idea).

[VodkaDilc]

Well we have Gove prattling on about how he values music and then he does all he can to dismember it, slashing government grants, and continuing his policy of never visiting a single state school (other than academies and free schools, which the buffoon still thinks are a good idea).

Not to mention the classic Gove quote a few weeks ago. When asked how the academies and free schools would persuade teachers to work the extended hours and terms which many of them have in mind, he said that the new intake of teachers at present entering the profession were more committed to these ideals and making schools work efficiently than previous generations of teaching staff. So that puts those of us who have spent the last forty years in schools firmly in our places. Nice to be appreciated, Mr Gove. (I wish I could find the exact quote; it really was as bad as I recall it.)

(Notice the spin-doctors' attempts to humanise him this week by dwelling on his background in a single-parent family. "He's really an ordinary bloke, just like us!!")

[subcontrabass]

Well we have Gove prattling on about how he values music and then he does all he can to dismember it, slashing government grants, and continuing his policy of never visiting a single state school (other than academies and free schools, which the buffoon still thinks are a good idea).

The academies and free schools are, in a proper sense, "state" schools, in that they are funded and ultimately controlled directly by central government.

[MrGongGong]

What I find really puzzling is that I have yet to meet (or even read in these kinds of discussions ) anyone who thinks that they have good ideas or are doing the right thing in education , and more specifically in music education policy ???

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... he said that the new intake of teachers at present entering the profession were more committed to these ideals and making schools work efficiently than previous generations of teaching staff.

And so he rewards them by forcing them to work until they are 68. What a plonker

(Notice the spin-doctors' attempts to humanise him this week by dwelling on his background in a single-parent family. "He's really an ordinary bloke, just like us!!")

[Pabmusic]

This is relevant, although it's very poorly written indeed. It flits from one point to another in no particular order (perhaps that's intended to reflect the state of music teaching in primary schools): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17226187

[VodkaDilc]

This is relevant, although it's very poorly written indeed. It flits from one point to another in no particular order (perhaps that's intended to reflect the state of music teaching in primary schools): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17226187

What a pointless article! Like most of what I've read from Ofsted, it seems to concentrate on these silly descriptions like "outstanding" and "inadequate" and actually says little. (Doesn't "satisfactory" now mean "only satisfactory, so in fact unsatisfactory"?) What does seem to be true is that the developments in music in schools which happened through my career have now been reversed; there are beacons of excellence (and it does not need an Ofsted inspector with a clip-board to identify them), but the overall standard is now dire.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What a pointless article! Like most of what I've read from Ofsted, it seems to concentrate on these silly descriptions like "outstanding" and "inadequate" and actually says little. (Doesn't "satisfactory" now mean "only satisfactory, so in fact unsatisfactory"?) What does seem to be true is that the developments in music in schools which happened through my career have now been reversed; there are beacons of excellence (and it does not need an Ofsted inspector with a clip-board to identify them), but the overall standard is now dire.

Why on earth people should take so much notice of the Ofsted prattlers is beyond me. This damaging quango consists of a mixture of people ranging from decent ex-teachers to utterly inept yes-men, all with one agenda - to grab 30 pieces of silver and to sound important. They are only "important" because they have been given the power of playground bullies. They have done more damage to education than most education secretaries, though Michael Gove is certainly giving then a run for their money.

[BBMmk2]

At the school where I work, we did rather well with Ofsted, this time round.

Our music department is a rather flourishing one, with a Director of Music that is quite ambitious in what he wants, well.

[VodkaDilc]

Why on earth people should take so much notice of the Ofsted prattlers is beyond me. This damaging quango consists of a mixture of people ranging from decent ex-teachers to utterly inept yes-men, all with one agenda - to grab 30 pieces of silver and to sound important. They are only "important" because they have been given the power of playground bullies. They have done more damage to education than most education secretaries, though Michael Gove is certainly giving then a run for their money.

I'm in complete agreement. Many of us will remember the supportive and constructive advice which used to be offered by the Music HMIs in days gone by; they came to help and advise, not to judge, and their visits were usually stimulating and encouraging. The LEA Advisers also did a good job. Now we have Ofsted!

[teamsaint]

In the big scheme of things, our world is run by private school, oxbridge educated elites.

They don't want that changing any time soon........so they keep people ignorant, or fixated on consumer goods.
They leave most people with enough attention span(music wise) to keep them listening to local classic gold(or whatever), leaving real music to those of their class with the time and brains to enjoy it.(in their view).

anyway, rant over. The private schools have performance wrapped up. state schools , in my ill informed opinion, would do well to concentrate on showing kids how to enjoy a variety of music, by exposure to good performance, and by demonstrating that music does not have to be a competition won or lost by age 17, but something to to cherish and participate in throughout your life.Perhaps they already do this.Or perhaps there are better ways.