Technical Help Please

[johnb]

my TV engineer says that my 2005 Panasonic DVD recorder DMR-EH50 doesn't recognise the stations and hence cannot record from the TV though it plays DVD's fine.

Does the Panasonic DMR-EH50 have a built in Freeview tuner or just the old analogue tuner? Are you in a digital only area (I'm not sure whether there are any analogue TV areas left)? If it doesn't have a Freeview tuner then one way of dealing with the problem would be to buy a Freeview set-top box and connect it to a scart input on your Panasonic. These are pretty cheap but make sure it has all the connections that you require.

In addition, just to pile on the cost, the TV will not connect to my rather ancient Technics amplifier as I need a digital optical input and phono sockets seem to be yesterday's thing. Again, is this correct? If it is what is my best option?

Looking at the spec of the Samsung it would appear that there are three options:

1) Using the headphone output. Not an ideal solution but it might be a work around. You would need to buy a 3.5mm jack to phono converter such as this. (There are other converters available for different jack sizes.) When connecting it to your amplifier it is very important that you set the headphone volume on your TV to the minimum before you make the connection and then slowly increase it to gauge the effect.

2) Using a Scart to phono connector - but this would occupy your only scart socket (though there are probably scart splitters available). Not ideal.

3) Buying a DAC. This is by far and away the best solution though I would be wary of buying a dirt cheap DAC (such as the one in mw963's post). However, the Cambridge DACMagic (as an example of a reasonable DAC) sells for around £200, which might be more than you contemplate spending.

My engineer recommends a Humax hard drive recorder. Can any of you boffins out there say if this is correct and if so recommend a decent Humax?

The Humax recorders (e.g. the HDR-FOX T2) are certainly pretty good, according to what I read when I was doing some research on them earlier this year. From what I gathered it saves the recordings in native 'TS' format which is encrypted by the machine. From memory, I believe you can copy the standard definition recordings to an external HDD, etc and even copy the encrypted HD recordings - though the latter is fiddly, time consuming and needs a workaround that one of the Humax enthusiasts developed. Not being able to create DVDs of the programmes without lengthy and fiddly transfers to a PC is definitely a draw back but there is probably no totally ideal solution - one has to gauge what is the best option for one's individual needs.

Once again from memory, I believe the external HHD has to be formatted in Ext3 (commonly used for Linux) rather than the usual Windows formats.

I didn't get the Humax because I wanted a device that would, additionally, stream programmes captured on my PC to my TV via the Humax but the Humax, inexplicably, couldn't stream mpg files.

DVD-RAM discs
I too had a Panasonic HD recorder (in fact that first domestic HD recorder that was on sale in the UK) so I've had experience of DVD-RAM discs.

There are many external (and internal) DVD drives that support DVD-RAM discs. Using software such as VideoReDo it is possible to edit the DVD-RAM files and convert them to DVD compatible files and even put them onto a DVD.

There are a few caveats though:

1) The Panasonic HD recorder that I owned had a number of set recording qualities - one of which was 'Flexible Recording Mode'. Using this option the quality is automatically switched between XP (high quality), SP (Normal), LP (Long play), and EP (Extra long play) during the recording, in order to fit the recording onto, say, a DVD-RAM. This means that you have segments of the recording alternating between, say, XP and SP - which really messes up converting the DVD-RAM files. It is possible, and I have done it, but the process is very fiddly and very time consuming. However, converting recordings made in XP/SP/LP/EP is very straightforward.

2) My old Panasonic recorder recorded everything in 4:3 format. If the programme was wide screen then it recorded it as a 'letterbox' with the top and bottom of the 4:3 black. All this was 'invisible' to the user however it is something that one has to be aware of when converting an old Panasonic DVD-RAM to DVD - in order to get the right settings.

In general, although I liked my old Panasonic recorder I wouldn't buy another one because I dislike their recording formats - rather than being recorded in the native Freeview format, the data is transcoded to DVD-RAM compatible XP/SP/LP/EP formats when recording to the hard drive. This very often results in (much) larger files than the original data. The files are then lossily transcoded when creating a DVD.

Currently I capture any TV programmes I want to record on my PC, using a USB tuner, in their native format then edit them with VideoReDo, store them on an external hard drive and stream them to my TV using a Sony BD player (your Samsung TV might be able to stream direct, of course).

Much simpler to get use DVD player/HD recorder.

[MrGongGong]

Looking at the spec of the Samsung it would appear that there are three options:

1) Using the headphone output. Not an ideal solution but it might be a work around. You would need to buy a 3.5mm jack to phono converter such as this. (There are other converters available for different jack sizes.) When connecting it to your amplifier it is very important that you set the headphone volume on your TV to the minimum before you make the connection and then slowly increase it to gauge the effect.
.

A word of warning on connectors / adaptors
I would always avoid the block type (on the link above) as one only has to knock it to distort the socket (experience in many educational institutions music departments !) a far better type is like this (which does mean that you can put some kind of "strain relief" on the cable !!) simply a stereo minijack to 2 phono lead which will go into the amp (any channel EXCEPT one for a turntable !) as a line level signal

http://www.maplin.co.uk/twin-phono-to-3.5mm-stereo-jack-lead-31700

maplins are very expensive but easy to find

[mw963]

3) Buying a DAC. This is by far and away the best solution though I would be wary of buying a dirt cheap DAC (such as the one in mw963's post). However, the Cambridge DACMagic (as an example of a reasonable DAC) sells for around £200, which might be more than you contemplate spending.


.

If you were using a DAC for very high quality material there would be some justification for spending more on it. But, remember, this is MPEG 2 (in fact MPEG 1 layer 2 I think) sound, coded at no more than 256 kbps. The quality "damage" has already been done by the transmission process and I doubt a £170 increase in price is going to make much difference. Given also that often the quality of modern broadcast balances leaves a certain amount to be desired I'd stick with buying the one I recommended (although the headphone alternative is a useful alternative) and upgrade if you feel it necessary.

I use one to convert the SPDIF of my computer to feed my amp and it's more than adequate for material that is no longer 16 bit/44.1 kHz uncompressed.

[mw963]

Culpa Mea, and oh dear I've been here less than 12 hours...

Petrushka - I'm so sorry - I don't think your machine will ever directly record again using its on-board tuner; I've checked the spec (should have done that at the start) and it's only got an analogue tuner, so if you've already had Digital SwitchOver in your area it won't record again off its own bat. No amount of software tinkering is going to produce a magic solution!

However, as someone else suggested you could buy a separate DTT box (for under £30) and hook it up to one of the Scart sockets and record - somewhat clumsily - that way.

[french frank]

Culpa Mea, and oh dear I've been here less than 12 hours...

Never mind - don't go away!

[mw963]

Thanks f f - I won't. It's so nice to know there are so many of us who are so utterly dispirited with the way things are.

And the more we point out how bad things are the harder "they" press the accelerator towards mediocrity.

[Petrushka]

Culpa Mea, and oh dear I've been here less than 12 hours...

Petrushka - I'm so sorry - I don't think your machine will ever directly record again using its on-board tuner; I've checked the spec (should have done that at the start) and it's only got an analogue tuner, so if you've already had Digital SwitchOver in your area it won't record again off its own bat. No amount of software tinkering is going to produce a magic solution!

However, as someone else suggested you could buy a separate DTT box (for under £30) and hook it up to one of the Scart sockets and record - somewhat clumsily - that way.

Thanks mw963, that's no problem. The digital switchover happened here last September and up until recently I was watching and recording via my rather ancient Freeview box. I hadn't appreciated the fact that my Panasonic recorder did not have Freeview tuner in-built and up-grading my TV has made it obsolete.

This is another of the hidden costs of the switchover that never gets mentioned.

As is usual with me, I much prefer to know what I have to deal with and a new DVD recorder is on the wish-list. Here's hoping for a nice win on the horses!

[johnb]

[QUOTE=Petrushka;135300I hadn't appreciated the fact that my Panasonic recorder did not have Freeview tuner in-built and up-grading my TV has made it obsolete.[/QUOTE]

Not really. You can continue using the Panasonic recorder as you did before, with your old set top box.

[Dave2002]

Another annoyance with the Samsung (I suspect in common with most others, for copyright reasons) is that material on the hard drive can't be archived to any other medium. So you can't back up the contents of the hard drive to the computer, or an external hard drive. My fear is that the unit fails, and then everything on the 1TB hard drive is lost...

The Humax Foxsat PVRs are perfectly capable of outputing to an external hard drive, which can then be connected to a computer and the files CAN be viewed there. This should also apply to HD material, though then the transfer is likely to be very slow via USB - I don't think they do a USB3 version yet - and you'll need to format the drive as EXT3, which requires knowledge and/or equipment which most of us don't have. If you don't need to transfer HD material, then the standard drive formatting should work. The other problem with using EXT3 formatted drives is that you also need a computer which can read them, if you want to do further work on the files. If you only want to use external drives as backup for the PVR than just get the drives formatted as EXT3 and use them. Otherwise you'll need a Linux or similar based computer to do other work on the computer.

If you can live with SD video only, then the hard drive can be formatted to be compatible with a Mac, a PC and/or the PVR.

I'm prepared to believe that this will also apply to new Humax Freeview PVRs, which I'd guess are pretty similar re the hardware and software used for external drives.

[Dave2002]

As is usual with me, I much prefer to know what I have to deal with and a new DVD recorder is on the wish-list. Here's hoping for a nice win on the horses!

There's quite a variety of TV recording kit available now. We manage with PVRs which have just hard drives, and the newest one can take an external drive. Some people like to have DVDs and maybe even Blu Ray as well. Very recently I was talking to a colleague who was very enthusiastic about a gadget which I think he said also did transfers from Video Tape (presumably VHS!). There's no accounting for what people will want to have, and I think that kit was pretty new and maybe still available. Sounds stone age to me, but that's what he wanted and it does the job for him.

At one time I wanted to have a DVD recorder as well, and indeed bought one, but it didn't work too well, so I took it back. Since then I decided that I didn't really need that anyway, but again, different people have different requirements. A DVD recorder can be used to make copies which can be used in portable devices, and elsewhere .... [No, you won't find me down at car boot sales ...] Depending on your lifestyle you may have a requirement for something different.

Oh - I think most of the new ones (PVRs, Blu Rays or similar) do have ethernet, and possibly even wireless Wi-Fi too. Ethernet might be useful for some new distribution services. Wi-Fi may be of limited use - though it depends on the throughput. It could be useful if you want to use an external media server. Also, some of the fanciest devices themselves can act as media servers. I've not really kept up, but one option would be to have a Blu Ray/DVD/PVR unit running Wi-Fi so you can pick up your programmes on a portable gadget such as an iPhone or iPad. I bet such systems are on sale already

You can also go 3D of course, and although that might actually be of limited use, particularly if you don't (yet?) have a 3D TV, don't rule it out as I have noted that some PVRs which had that capability were actually more affordable, and better reviewed than some without it. On the other hand some 3D players are not so good, and you could end up paying for something you didn't want/need. You need to check.

[jayne lee wilson]

The DacMagic is a marvel, so big a bargain it's almost silly, and Cambridge have just reduced the price of a cutdown version called the DacMagic 100 to £170. It's absolutely justified for those 320 kbps streams you may listen to - BBC R3 and the Berlin Phil DCH. HIFiNews's Paul Miller, one of the most astute of current reviewers, has always said it's one of the best under £1000! I can only concur! Whilst 192 kbps streams have inherent problems, you may still hear an improvement on them. I once tried a separate quite sophisticated Perpetual Tech. DAC with an Arcam Alpha 10 DAB tuner and it was audibly better on 192, if not by much.

The main thing with TV recorders is choosing one which does what YOU want, without too much you don't need. I use a Topfield PVT 5810, it's easy to use and works very well. Are you sure you want DVD replay and PVR in one box?

If you were using a DAC for very high quality material there would be some justification for spending more on it. But, remember, this is MPEG 2 (in fact MPEG 1 layer 2 I think) sound, coded at no more than 256 kbps. The quality "damage" has already been done by the transmission process and I doubt a £170 increase in price is going to make much difference. Given also that often the quality of modern broadcast balances leaves a certain amount to be desired I'd stick with buying the one I recommended (although the headphone alternative is a useful alternative) and upgrade if you feel it necessary.

I use one to convert the SPDIF of my computer to feed my amp and it's more than adequate for material that is no longer 16 bit/44.1 kHz uncompressed.

[mw963]

It's absolutely justified for those 320 kbps streams you may listen to - BBC R3 and the Berlin Phil DCH.

But is the o/p going be using his new TV to listen to R3 at 320 kbps? I would assume that most of its use would be on TV broadcast stuff, and still believe that it would be better to try a cheap solution before splashing out on something pretty expensive. Unless of course money is no object....

After all, the DAC in the TV itself is hardly going to be of the quality you are suggesting!

As an aside, I did hear a "one-off" Radio 2 HD Radio internet broadcast (ie like the R3 320 kbps system) a while back of an Elton John concert, and in spite of all the bigging up it was accorded beforehand the quality of the balance was - frankly - poor. It was a great disappointment and certainly didn't justify £170 for a DAC!!

[jayne lee wilson]

Most recent TVs will have digital outputs which an outboard DAC will usually improve on, and last time I looked the standard for most BBC TV channels was 256kbps Stereo MPEG2 (some are still 192) - not sure what the HD Multichannel bitrate is, but again it depends what you're doing with it. TV sound can surprise you - when I used the analogue outputs from the fairly recent (2009) Panasonic 32" I have it sounded pretty good run into a pair of mono Tivoli Model Ones, used as active speakers (!) - really quite engaging on Proms or Rock broadcasts, and rather better (more open, dynamic, just very "musical") than a Denon soundbar (good for general TV & film use, musically inoffensive) despite the Denon doing the decoding on the TVs digital output. It's worth auditioning and experimenting with options if possible (helpful dealer handy?)

But is the o/p going be using his new TV to listen to R3 at 320 kbps? I would assume that most of its use would be on TV broadcast stuff, and still believe that it would be better to try a cheap solution before splashing out on something pretty expensive. Unless of course money is no object....

After all, the DAC in the TV itself is hardly going to be of the quality you are suggesting!

As an aside, I did hear a "one-off" Radio 2 HD Radio internet broadcast (ie like the R3 320 kbps system) a while back of an Elton John concert, and in spite of all the bigging up it was accorded beforehand the quality of the balance was - frankly - poor. It was a great disappointment and certainly didn't justify £170 for a DAC!!

[Bryn]

... last time I looked the standard for most BBC TV channels was 256kbps Stereo MPEG2 ...

MPEG 1, audio layer 2, a.k.a. mp2, surely?

[Dave2002]

MPEG 1, audio layer 2, a.k.a. mp2, surely?

Isn't there a possible confusion with the video channels, some of which are I think still MPEG2, though at a higher bit rate. More recent developments are for MPEG4 or similar video, but not all channels use the latest more efficient video codecs.