Room 101 - what single aspect of modern life should be consigned to oblivion?

[3rd Viennese School]

and taxis

[Ferretfancy]

The deafening lady announcer on the Northern Line who tries to make the words HIGH BARNET sound sexy.

The lady opposite me on the Northern Line who does a full make up job with bits of tissue on the seat next to her.

KilOMMeter and Dysect

"Radio 3 in concert "

'-------" on piano ( or clarinet , violin etc.)

[amateur51]

"tasked" ?

OMG yes please! Along with 'leverage' & 'leveraged'.

[amateur51]

??

Can I add the phrase "political correctness" as it seems to mean "something nebulous that I don't like, oh how I wish it was the 1950's again" !

[Lateralthinking1]

This is a guess. Yes - dictator, inflator, coordinator, actor. No - dictatory, inflatory, coordinatory, actory. Yes - adviser. Yes - advisory as in "advisory role". Arguably, the "er" leads to "or" or more precisely "ory". The "or" is not intended to be interchangeable with "er". There is more of a softness to "adviser". You can take the advice or leave it. A dictator dictates, an actor acts etc.

Just so as not to mislead, this guess of mine was wrong. My OED explains that "advisory" is North American and was first introduced into Britain in the 1930s for weather forecasts. Far too late for any real root meaning.

Along with "advisory", the OED also permits "advisor" but as an afterthought in brackets. Again, North American in original usage. It says that "adviser", which is not in brackets, is more common. "Advisor", it adds, "can" be used more formally than "adviser".

As with "advisory", I think it very likely that "advisor" in Britain only begins in the 1930s.

According to the dictionary, "advisory" really picked up here in the 1990s with "parental advisory stickers" on records. They too started in North America. My feeling is that this would also have led to the far greater use of "advisor", hence the use of "adviser" in my books until the late 1970s and beyond.

The words I used - "dictator", "actor" etc all end in "tor" and not "sor" or "ser" which probably means that they weren't terrific parallels. It seems to me now that some relevant "tor" words can go to "tory" at a push - for example "investigator" to "investigatory".

On the "ser" words, "adviser" isn't unique. While "reviser" is hardly a wonderful word, it exists and in North America it is "revisor". There appears to have been no social reason - weather, stickers - why we would have had a need to introduce the latter. It doesn't exist here.

And then I would like to offer "miser" - Latin, 1500s. Like "adviser" originally, it is not at all North American and just as there is no "revisor" here, there is no "misor". So while many think that "adviser" is inconsistent, it seems to me that it is "advisor" that is so. A contemporary peculiarity that I will continue to choose to avoid.

[Serial_Apologist]

Just so as not to mislead, this guess of mine was wrong. My OED explains that "advisory" is North American and was first introduced into Britain in the 1930s for weather forecasts. Far too late for any real root meaning.

Along with "advisory", the OED also permits "advisor" but as an afterthought in brackets. Again, North American in original usage. It says that "adviser", which is not in brackets, is more common. "Advisor", it adds, "can" be used more formally than "adviser".

As with "advisory", I think it very likely that "advisor" in Britain only begins in the 1930s.

According to the dictionary, "advisory" really picked up here in the 1990s with "parental advisory stickers" on records. They too started in North America. My feeling is that this would also have led to the far greater use of "advisor", hence the use of "adviser" in my books until the late 1970s and beyond.

The words I used - "dictator", "actor" etc all end in "tor" and not "sor" or "ser" which probably means that they weren't terrific parallels. It seems to me now that some relevant "tor" words can go to "tory" at a push - for example "investigator" to "investigatory".

On the "ser" words, "adviser" isn't unique. While "reviser" is hardly a wonderful word, it exists and in North America it is "revisor". There appears to have been no social reason - weather, stickers - why we would have had a need to introduce the latter. It doesn't exist here.

And then I would like to offer "miser" - Latin, 1500s. Like "adviser" originally, it is not at all North American and just as there is no "revisor" here, there is no "misor". So while many think that "adviser" is inconsistent, it seems to me that it is "advisor" that is so. A contemporary peculiarity that I will continue to choose to avoid.

Hmmm. On "Sponsor" my father's 1941 OED only gives -or.

"Censor"?

[Lateralthinking1]

Yes, no one was suggesting that there were no "sor" endings of that kind. There are several. One of the main thoughts was that "ser" was unique and hence wrong but "miser" and "reviser" show it isn't unique.

1941 is interesting. 1921 would be even better. What does it have to say about "advisory" which is supposed to have been introduced in the 1930s and also "advisor"? I am in no doubt whatsoever that "adviser" is there.

But it could be a surpriser!

[mangerton]

Be grateful that, with less than 10% of the total population of the UK, Scotland gets on the forecast at all. Actually, living in the south I am constantly berating the forecasters for starting their forecasts with NI or Scotland. The South is invariably the last place to get a mention, despite being the most populous part of the UK.

In fact, time to do away with national forecasts per se. After all, it can be of little but academic interest what the weather is doing in Ulster for someone living in Norfolk, and vice versa.

Strange how one's perceptions can differ. I don't know where get your forecasts from, but on Radio 4 Scotland is usually (not always) lumped in with N Ireland at the very end. Highly unlikely, in my view, that the weather in Lerwick will be the same as in Belfast. I am in total agreement with your second paragraph.

On the 101 question, I would unhesitatingly consign all weather "forecasters" to that destination. Inaccurate forecasts apart, their use of English is a disgrace. "Through the day", or worse "as we head through the day", for example. What's wrong with "during"?

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes, no one was suggesting that there were no "sor" endings of that kind. There are several. One of the main thoughts was that "ser" was unique and hence wrong but "miser" and "reviser" show it isn't unique.

1941 is interesting. 1921 would be even better. What does it have to say about "advisory" which is supposed to have been introduced in the 1930s and also "advisor". I am in no doubt whatsoever that "adviser" is there.

Aha - interesting!

Quote: "Advisory (-z-), a. Giving advice. [ADVISE + -ORY]"

and btw "Adviser" is only offered as thus spelt - no -or.

[mangerton]

OMG yes please! Along with 'leverage' & 'leveraged'.

Absolutely! Especially when they're pronounced to rhyme with "clever".

[Lateralthinking1]

Aha - interesting!

Quote: "Advisory (-z-), a. Giving advice. [ADVISE + -ORY]"

and btw "Adviser" is only offered as thus spelt - no -or.

Does this not then pretty well confirm that (a) "advisor" emerged late from "advisory" and (b) taking the comments of the current OED into account, your OED from 1941 might have been one of the first to have included "advisory"?

(1930s weather forecasts - first British use of "advisory" from the American - later decades onto "advisor" with "adviser" retained for main usage)

I feel that my summary was about right. I say "about" because "miser" is 1400s and not 1500s. "Adviser" appears to be from the same period. "Sponsor" and "censor" are from the 16th and 17th centuries as nouns and then one at least becomes a verb in the 19th century. They are definitely later.

So I think we could suggest that "ser" came first and "sor" later. How much later? Oh, as a noun plus verb, when the United States was becoming something like the country we know and love.

That is not to say in 2012 we should be sticking religiously to what happened in the 1400s.

However, I could only be happy with "advisor" if it wasn't as recent as the late 20th century, as now seems to have been confirmed, and if it hadn't take off, as it probably did, because of Tipper Gore. That is very late indeed and very American!

(1990s parental guidance stickers - enhanced use of "advisory" leading to very enhanced use of "advisor" but "adviser" still retained for main usage)

"Advisor" is in brackets in mine. It isn't in yours at all. It beats "color" as a word but only marginally in my book.

Thanks for the info.

[John Skelton]

It beats "color" as a word but only marginally in my book.

... entrayld with roses red,
Which daintie odours round about them threw,
And all within with flowres was garnished,
That when myld Zephyrus emongst them blew,
Did breath out bounteous smels, & painted colors shew.

Spenser, The Faerie Queene Bk. II Canto V. (Published 1590).

[Lateralthinking1]

Spenser

Not Spensor?

[John Skelton]

Not Spensor?

I'll check my inbuilt spelling senser.

[salymap]

Re weather forecasters,'dancing' Daniel Corbett must already be in Room 101. What happened to him?