The Story Of Light Music

[MrGongGong]

I think the term"Perfect Pitch" is a misnomer.
A lot of people can claim to have "Pitch Recognition" to a greater or less degree, but the term which I have always heard used to describe someone who can actually sing (or whistle) an "A" (440, 442 or whatever) is "Absolute pitch" which can, of course be conditioned by one's environment.

For instance, many organs are tuned to a sharper pitch than concert pitch; so an organist might sing a sharper "A" than, for instance, a violinist.
For years, brass band and military band instruments were tuned to what was eroniously called "Sharp Pitch"
The fact that it was higher than "concert pitch" simply meant that it was different - not "sharp"

I have noticed in the past that Waldhorn, who has recently made a welcome return to these boards, knows quite a lot about pitch and how it has changed over the last few hundred years. Perhaps he might be prepared to comment.

HS

BTW Dennis Brain was an accomplished organist as well as being "the" horn player of his day and, before he started to achieve fame as a horn soloist, he already had been awarded a fellowship of the Royal College of Organists (FRCO)
He had "absolute pitch", but it was from hours of playing the organ. If he was to play a concerto, he would tune to the oboist's given "A" and then pull his tuning slide out by about a quarter of an inch.

Perhaps we are getting away too far from the subject of this thread. My apologies.

This is interesting stuff but maybe a bit OT
but I always thought that what is referred to here is "relative pitch" rather than "absolute" ?
and as we all (???) know "concert" pitch is subject to wide variation

[Hornspieler]

This is interesting stuff but maybe a bit OT
but I always thought that what is referred to here is "relative pitch" rather than "absolute" ?
and as we all (???) know "concert" pitch is subject to wide variation

Morning Mr GongGong:

"Relative Pitch" is the ability to move accurately from one note to another. Any player or singer must have a degree of relative pitch in order to perform satisfactorily.
(Keyboard instruments and percussion excepted, of course. If the piano tuner didn't do his job properly, it's not the pianist's fault!)

I was fortunate to be trained at an early age using Curwen's Modulator. The instructor, (in my case the late great Anthony Brown),
points to the note doh and plays a note on the piano. It could be any note; within the middle range of the keyboard He then points to another note in the tonic sol-fah scale and you have to sing it, in relation to the note you have just heard. Then he points to a different note, and you must sing that. Back to doh again. Can you remember it?

That is "Relative Pitch"

Interestingly, when I visited the Ironbridge Museum a few years ago, there was an array of shops and premises set out as they would have looked when the Iron Bridge was constructed. Complete with costumed figures and the equipment of the day.

And what was on the wall in the School Music Room?

CURWENS MODULATOR!

HS

[cloughie]

I do not claim to have perfect pitch, but through knowing that my comfortable range is G>F above middle C, could work out what note I am on, and busk a reasonable harmony against most tunes!

[Pabmusic]

You can learn perfect pitch (or at least to some extent). When I started to play timps (about 1968) I needed help with tuning them. Yet, without thinking about it, the more I played them, the less help I needed. Eventually it was no great problem to retune to (say) B flat, E flat and F while the orchestra was playing in D major (or whatever). And with the practicalities came a much better appreciation of pitch.

If he was to play a concerto, [Denis Brain] would tune to the oboist's given "A" and then pull his tuning slide out by about a quarter of an inch.

There are times when a timpanist has to tune sharp. One example is the solo roll, crescendo, at the end of Tchaikovsky's Romeo & Juliet. As the roll gets louder and you exert more pressure on the head, the pitch drops. So the usual trick it to tune the drum sharp for that roll - no-one will notice while you're playing softly (or so you hope!) and the pitch will drop to the right note as the roll gets louder. Of course, if you're using pedal timps you should be able to adjust the pitch as you're playing - but that's not possible with hand-tuned drums.

[John Wright]

hello boys, what happened to The Story Of Light Music ?

[salymap]

hello boys, what happened to The Story Of Light Music ?

I did a heads up for the second programme tomorrow night on R2 but am not responsible for the boys, please Sir.

[John Wright]

Thanks salymap. I recorded the first part from iplayer and listened tonight. I was very pleased with the programme. I've listened to and researched light music and dance band music for many years, collecting original 78's from 1910-1950. The 'history' of light music as presented by Parkinson (written by Russell Davies) more or less follows what I think of as the development of the genre(s) - for there is more than one light music.

There's the light classical pieces from the likes of Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Sullivan, Grieg, Elgar, Grainger. They would have been studied by the likes of Ketelbey. And bravo to Russell Davies for mentioning Archibald Joyce who not only wrote some of the embryonic pieces for what we mostly call light music now, he also made some of the earliest recordings of dance band music, as did the first HMV studio 'house' band which also got a mention, The Mayfair Orchestra, in Edwardian-pre-WW1 days.

Mention too for the dancebands, like Henry Hall, who spawned the talents of music arrangers like Stanley Black, Phil Green and Peter Yorke, who made a huge contribution to the sound of light music into the 1950s.

I had to laugh at the story of Elgar 'head-banging' to the music of Eric Coates!

Looking forward to part 2, which I assume will mention Mantovani, (who was making recordings of light music since 1929!), Johnny Gregory, film music and the recent resurgence of interest in light music through the efforts of John Wilson.

[Pabmusic]

I also listened in. It was very enjoyable, and I agree with John Wright's comments about Archibald Joyce. I was surprised, though, to see that Joyce died in 1963! I'd always thought of him as an Edwardian composer.

[John Wright]

I also listened in. It was very enjoyable, and I agree with John Wright's comments about Archibald Joyce. I was surprised, though, to see that Joyce died in 1963! I'd always thought of him as an Edwardian composer.

Yes that is him, Archibald Joyce (25 May 1873 – 22 March 1963).

And yes his most memorable work is from the Edwardian era and just after, his first success being Songe d'Automne Waltz (1908), and his first records for dancing were made in 1912, including his own compositions, waltzes, Vision d'amour, Remembrance, Thousand Kisses, Dreaming which he recorded for HMV. He made about 50 dance records from 1912-1922, and probably many other light orchestral recordings. Wiki suggests he was still composing in the early 1940s.

[Pabmusic]

Thank you, John

[salymap]

Part 2 of The Story of Light Music was on too late for me last night. Hope to hear it on iPlayer later.

Did you enjoy it John ?

[John Wright]

Yes I enjoyed part 2.

Mantovani and Bob Farnon got features. Predictably the Farnon chart hits were heard, and good to hear part of an interview. I'm not a great fan of the 'cascading strings' or whatever effect Mantovani called his post war arrangements - I much prefer his pre-war dance records with their continental style.

I didn't hear all the programme (but did record it), and heard a lot of Eric Coates. As for film music I think only John Williams and 'Star Wars' got a mention! which was disappointing - Benjamin Frankel was worth a mention; I would have done so. I suppose film music 1945-1965 deserves its own series.

[salymap]

I listened on iPlayer and remember most of the pieces, being an oldie. The references to Glock rang bells, i worked in music and the Augener catalogue had numerous lightish pieces by Gordon Jacob, Franz Reizenstein, Malcolm Arnold and others that were difficult to get accepted by the BBC for broadcasts. It was Glock, but Hans Keller was the power behind the throne IMO. Let's hope that all sorts of music get a share of radio time in the future.

I agree about Mantovani. A little goes a long way with me.

[Serial_Apologist]

The references to Glock rang bells

Glockenspiels, probably

[salymap]

Glockenspiels, probably

Yes he did, quite a lot.