The Story Of Light Music

[Hornspieler]

Excellent contributions form Hornspeiler and Pabmusic, thank you.

You might be interested in parts of last night's Radio 2 'Friday Night Is Music Night', a 60th anniversary of the BBC Concert Orchestra. Includes archive programme excerpts, 1987 and 1993, of the orchestra, tributes to Robert Farnon (who died in 2005) and Stanley Black (who died in 2002).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01bwky9

I was actually playing in that very first performance by the re-named BBC Opera Orchestra, which I also had played in under Stanford Robinson.
Was it really that long ago?

Stanley Black was a great loss to British "Lighter" music. A fine pianist and a very good Musical Director.

HS

[Nick Armstrong]

"Muir Mathieson was keen on saying that in his opinion there were only two kinds of music, good music and bad music."

Something I have been telling people for years. The likes of Trevor Duncan, Leo Norman, Frederick Curzon and Arthur Benjamin wrote some very good music.

Beethoven, whom we all consider one of the very best composers also wrote some very bad music - The battle symphony being a very good example. So did a lot of other exalted "classical" composers.

In the 1950s the BBC had what was called "The Unit" The unit comprised such orchestras as Frank Chacksfield, The London Light Concert Orchestra (Michael Krein), The Casino Orchestra (Reginald Kilbey) Monia Liter's 2oth Century Serenaders, The Majestic Orchestra (Lou Whiteson) and of course The BBC Revue Orchestra and BBC Variety Orchestra. Outside of London, there was the BBC Midland Light Orchestra (Gilbert Vinter) The BBC Scottish Variety Orchestra (Kemlo Stephen) The BBC Northern Ireland Light Orchestra and the BBC West Country players.
Where are those orchestras now - and where is the music with which they used to entertain radio listeners?

I played regularly for the "Unit" in those days and some of that music took a lot of getting round. People will happily listen to "The Girl with the Flaxen Hair" by Debussy, but turn their noses up at "The Girl from Corsica" by Trevor Duncan, which is (IMV) a far superior composition.
Reznicek's overture "Donna Diana" can find a place on any concert programme but I think that Leo Norman's "Overture to a Picaresque Comedy" is of equal merit.

There is a lot of snobbery about light music - not least among those who claim to be music lovers.

HS

Excellent to see you back in town, HS

Your experience and opinions give real ballast to discussions on this forum imho

The Matheson quote with which you (and I) agree was stated in exactly the same terms by André Previn during In Tune yesterday.

[Pabmusic]

You could certainly add quite a few Schubert songs to the list. If you play them why not also Cole Porter and Gershwin? "Light music" seems to be acceptable if written by composers who also have credentials as serious composers.

One the one hand, I can't see why a 24-7 schedule should not be able to accommodate light music. No one listens to everything. Some "heavy music" is just as likely to make me switch off of some light music. On the other hand, while there are umpteen popular music stations, for me the main argument for keeping Radio 3 seriously classical (hard to define though that admittedly may be) is that it is the only British station that comes even close to taking on this role. (I can't stomach ClassicFM). I would like to be able to have the option of tuning in to this type of music at any time, eg between 10 and 12 in the evening before I go to bed. This being a time when little classical music is actually broadcast on Radio 3, it is my main CD listening time.

The problem is caused by our love of categorisation. It is when we call some music 'light' that we run into problems since we inevitably come across music that does not conform to our category. 'Serious' composers writing 'light' pieces, or vice versa (John Foulds is a good example - almost no one knew of his serious works until recently) raise another issue of categorisation. But these are only concerns because we want to have the categories in the first place. I realise that I'm talking myself towards the idea that 'all music is equal' - which is as unreal as categorisation - but there is surely an acceptable position between. After all, many conductors programmed 'light' pieces regularly before WW2 - something that was acceptable before orchestral concerts became purely serious affairs - without seeming to think of them as being a different 'kind' of music. The Strausses, Offenbach & co. managed very well in 19th-century Europe without carrying labels. I doubt that anyone thought they were in competition with Brahms or Wagner, but that was so obvious it didn't need saying. 'Light music' sounds a convenient term until you start to think hard.

I used to enjoy Steve Race's various programmes, but they wouldn't get a look-in nowadays when Radio 2 is 'mainstream' pop (highlights today are Pick of the Pops, Paul Gambaccini presenting hits from old US charts, and Dave Gorman's Pub Olympics), and they'd undoubtedly attract criticism of 'dumbing-down' if they were on Radio 3.

[Simon]

May I just say what a pleasure it has been to read through this thread and that IMO it is a credit to all who have contributed? The MB at or very near its best.

[salymap]

Didn't stop R3 having that 'Light fantastic' week or weekend a short time ago... The best of 'light music' is indeed fantastic, catchy, felicitous, well crafted, unforgettable. Trouble is, not much of it strikes me as 'the best' - loads is second grade, it seemed to me, and then it's banal, repetitive, uninspired and uninspiring...

I liked the definition of 'light music' as opposed to more 'serious' classical music: in 'light music', the tune is more important than what happens to it.

That's the best defination I've heard: 'The tune is more important than what happens to it.

Thanks to Hornspieler and others for a marvellous thread. To repeat details of programmes mentioned in #1 The Story of Light Music R2 on 22nd and 29th February at 10pm.

But within those limits, Muir Mathieson's [and others'] remark re good and bad still applies.

[Hornspieler]

That's the best defination I've heard: 'The tune is more important than what happens to it.

Thanks to Hornspieler and others for a marvellous thread. To repeat details of programmes mentioned in #1 The Story of Light Music R2 on 22nd and 29th February at 10pm.

But within those limits, Muir Mathieson's [and others'] remark re good and bad still applies.

I haven't finished yet, Saly!

As an illustration of the good/bad music argument, consider "Desert Island Discs"

Over the years, the invited guests have ranged from Archbishops through the whole range of professions to Politicians (The Highest strata to the lowest)

Six records to last for the remainder of one's exile! I am sure that you will find that 99% of those interviewed chose a mixture of "serious" and "easy listening" records; for want of a better definition.

Whilst I have a good old gripe, let me mention something else which the BBC has all but abandoned:

BRASS BAND MUSIC

Almost entirely absent from our ears. They play a full range from military marches to competition test pieces with an expertise and facility that many orchestral players could not get near to, and many of the top orchestral brass players found their way into our symphony orchestras via the Works Bands and the Salvation Army.

To give a few examples: Harold Jackson, Bram Gay, Paul Ringham, Jack Mackintosh, Willy Lang, (Trumpets) Maisie Ringham, Denis Wick, Godfrey Kneller (Trombones) Philip Catellinet, Arthur Doyle (Tubas)

Countless others whose names I cannot recall at the moment.

Such astonishing musical performance which is, apparently "... not quite right for Radio 3"

Get your act together, Auntie! There's a huge potential audience for brass band music - and not joost oop north.


Good morning all,
Hornspieler (who would have loved to play in t'brass band but were disqualified because instrument were t'wrong shape!)

[Nick Armstrong]

Six records to last for the remainder of one's exile!

BRASS BAND MUSIC


Countless others whose names I cannot recall at the moment.

Eight records, I think! But that doesn't undermine your argument. As a trombonist, I concur with your thesis!

I think the rubicund Maurice Murphy, late leader of the LSO trumpets, was another alumnus...

[salymap]

Eight records, I think! But that doesn't undermine your argument. As a trombonist, I concur with your thesis!

I think the rubicund Maurice Murphy, late leader of the LSO trumpets, was another alumnus...

And wasn't Ernest Hall[trumpet] in a brass band, or was it a silent film orchestra. I know he had a 'different' route to the top rank.

[Hornspieler]

And wasn't Ernest Hall[trumpet] in a brass band, or was it a silent film orchestra. I know he had a 'different' route to the top rank.

When I lived in the London area (Beckenham) Ernest Hall lived only a few hundred yards away from me and he ran a small choir in our local Sports Club (He played Bowls and I played Snooker!)

A good move, that. It was he who introduced me to the BBC symphony orchestra; he was the BBCSO's former principal trumpet and to whom he was a valued advisor, and it was that introduction that put me onto the BBC Extras and Deputies list, which resulted in my being engaged from time to time with the BBC Symphony, Opera and Welsh orchestras and also, at the tender age of 18, the "Unit" which gave me a lot of work and, more importantly, experience of playing light music. (Improved my sight reading no end)

One day, he invited me and my lifelong friend, the late Rodney Senior (who was one of his pupils at the RCM) to his house for tea; and then he played us some of his collection of brass band soloists, such as Harry Mortimer and Jack Mackintosh.
He was a sentimental old chap at times and he stood there with tears running down his cheeks

"Such wonderful players," he murmered "I wish I could have played like that."

That, from the greatest trumpet player of his day; who taught hundreds of trumpeters in his capacity as Professor of Trumpet and Director of Wind Ensembles at the Royal College of Music.

And yes. He did indeed start his career playing for the silent movies.

HS

[amateur51]

I used to love Workers Playtime and Music While You Work. Can we hear them again?

They would have to be re-scheduled as 'Job-seekers' Playtime' and 'Music While You Volunteer' in these rather austere times, greenilex?

[salymap]

Thanks Hornspieler, I remember him as still in the BBCSO when I started going to rehearsals in 1947. He was one of the best.

[greenilex]

Thanks for the laugh, am51.

Volunteers get all the best tunes...

[John Wright]

Whilst I have a good old gripe, let me mention something else which the BBC has all but abandoned:

BRASS BAND MUSIC

Almost entirely absent from our ears. They play a full range from military marches to competition test pieces with an expertise and facility that many orchestral players could not get near to, and many of the top orchestral brass players found their way into our symphony orchestras via the Works Bands and the Salvation Army.

.... Get your act together, Auntie! There's a huge potential audience for brass band music - and not joost oop north.

Again, BBC Radio 2 makes an effort every week, Listen to the Band, Wednesdays 2130 - 2200

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006wrvg

This week there's a one-hour show, 22nd Feb:

21:00–22:00 Listen to the Band Young Brass Award 2012
Frank Renton and Simone Rebello present the exciting conclusion of this years awards.

[John Wright]

I used to love Workers Playtime and Music While You Work. Can we hear them again?

YES! You CAN hear Music While You Work today!

A colleague of mine has a good archive of programmes, of British radio studio orchestras, bands and ensembles from the '30s to the '60s which he puts on line when they come out of copyright (presumably when they get to 50 years old).

So, his site is http://mastersofmelody.co.uk/

Scroll down that page and there's a list of over 50 orchestras/emsembles which have a 'biography' and those with a 'blue speaker icon' have a full programme from Music While You Work uploaded....

.... including Raymond Agoult and his Players, Jack Coles and his Orchestre Moderne, Reg Pursglove and The Albany Strings, Phil Tate and his Orchestra, Isy Geiger and his Viennese Music.....

Click the name of the orchestra to get to their page and their programme.

Happy listening!

[Nick Armstrong]

YES! You CAN hear Music While You Work today!

A colleague of mine has a good archive of programmes, of British radio studio orchestras, bands and ensembles from the '30s to the '60s which he puts on line when they come out of copyright (presumably when they get to 50 years old).

So, his site is http://mastersofmelody.co.uk/

Scroll down that page and there's a list of over 50 orchestras/emsembles which have a 'biography' and those with a 'blue speaker icon' have a full programme from Music While You Work uploaded....

.... including Raymond Agoult and his Players, Jack Coles and his Orchestre Moderne, Reg Pursglove and The Albany Strings, Phil Tate and his Orchestra, Isy Geiger and his Viennese Music.....

Click the name of the orchestra to get to their page and their programme.

Happy listening!

Fab website, John

Many thanks