The Story Of Light Music

[cloughie]

You could certainly add quite a few Schubert songs to the list. If you play them why not also Cole Porter and Gershwin? "Light music" seems to be acceptable if written by composers who also have credentials as serious composers.

One the one hand, I can't see why a 24-7 schedule should not be able to accommodate light music. No one listens to everything. Some "heavy music" is just as likely to make me switch off of some light music. On the other hand, while there are umpteen popular music stations, for me the main argument for keeping Radio 3 seriously classical (hard to define though that admittedly may be) is that it is the only British station that comes even close to taking on this role. (I can't stomach ClassicFM). I would like to be able to have the option of tuning in to this type of music at any time, eg between 10 and 12 in the evening before I go to bed. This being a time when little classical music is actually broadcast on Radio 3, it is my main CD listening time.

If that's your aim I'm afraid you are ten or so years too late. The controllers of both R3 and R2 have lost the plot, and we are losing the battle.

[salymap]

A REMINDER that the first of two programmes on The Story of Light Music in on R2 tonight at 10pm.

Rather interesting, it says in the RT that Elgar had an order with his local record shop for every new recording by Eric Coates.

[Hornspieler]

A REMINDER that the first of two programmes on The Story of Light Music in on R2 tonight at 10pm.

Rather interesting, it says in the RT that Elgar had an order with his local record shop for every new recording by Eric Coates.

Did anyone listen? I found it interesting but the emphasis seemed to be mostly upon popular music of the time (pre WW2) rather than the number of British composers writing light music
A bit late at night for some but at least it showed some interest in the subject.

HS

[Hornspieler]

If you missed last night's programme on Radio 2, try this ling for "listen again"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cqwt7

HS

[salymap]

I hopeto hear it later HS as I have put it on the harddisc thingy ! It doesn't sound, from your remarks, as though it knows the difference between the the two kinds of light music.

[salymap]

Rather disappointed in it. Perhaps Michael Parkinson was the wrong person to introduce it. Too much talking, no analysis of the development of light music, no serious light music. Well, we couldn't all agree amongst ourselves so is R2 up to it?

[VodkaDilc]

This is the series description from the R4 schedule:
Ivan Hewett explores how different musical keys seem to have distinct characteristics and create specific moods

E minor next week.

I just about agreed with the conclusions drawn on the previous two programmes about the characteristics of certain keys - but I thought that today's, on E minor, really strayed into the realms of the "far too personal, with very scant scientific or musical evidence". Some interesting observations about 'cello chords of E minor being far less resonant than, say, A major, because of open strings and suchlike - but then he rambled into very personal ground connected with his perfect pitch perceptions of the key. A single low E on the 'cello as a backdrop for a certain type of scene in a film? Sorry, Mr Expert (can't remember his name!), a low D or anything else would have the same effect for me. Then we had a pop song at great length. I was glad, glad when they said unto me "Time for the 3 o'clock news." Am I being too harsh? Did anyone else hear it today?

[salymap]

We have two series here of course. The next,and last,programme in The Story of Light Musicis on the 29th at 10pm on R2.

I keep missing that R4 programme on keys and will have to catch up later [story of my life ]

[MrGongGong]

I just about agreed with the conclusions drawn on the previous two programmes about the characteristics of certain keys - but I thought that today's, on E minor, really strayed into the realms of the "far too personal, with very scant scientific or musical evidence". Some interesting observations about 'cello chords of E minor being far less resonant than, say, A major, because of open strings and suchlike - but then he rambled into very personal ground connected with his perfect pitch perceptions of the key. A single low E on the 'cello as a backdrop for a certain type of scene in a film? Sorry, Mr Expert (can't remember his name!), a low D or anything else would have the same effect for me. Then we had a pop song at great length. I was glad, glad when they said unto me "Time for the 3 o'clock news." Am I being too harsh? Did anyone else hear it today?

aaaaaargh

I remember hearing this first time round and found it really disappointing
Yes, apart from the open string things etc the whole "D minor is the saddest of keys" malarkey belongs in the fiction section IMV
there IS a kind of memory of the time when keys DID sound radically different but as we have "chosen" equal temperament than we have effectively lost this in any meaningful way

and, like many musicians, i'm deeply sceptical of anyone who does the "i've got perfect pitch" nonsense , "perfect" relative to what exactly ??? One only needs a skim though Sloboda to realise this is a status game with little real foundation.................

[Serial_Apologist]

aaaaaargh

I remember hearing this first time round and found it really disappointing
Yes, apart from the open string things etc the whole "D minor is the saddest of keys" malarkey belongs in the fiction section IMV
there IS a kind of memory of the time when keys DID sound radically different but as we have "chosen" equal temperament than we have effectively lost this in any meaningful way

and, like many musicians, i'm deeply sceptical of anyone who does the "i've got perfect pitch" nonsense , "perfect" relative to what exactly ??? One only needs a skim though Sloboda to realise this is a status game with little real foundation.................

Not too sure about this, but doesn't perfect pitch mean that if I sing a pitch, tell myself that this is Middle C, and on going to the keyboard, discover that it is, and repeat the same exercise with the same results often enough, then I have it??

[MrGongGong]

Not too sure about this, but doesn't perfect pitch mean that if I sing a pitch, tell myself that this is Middle C, and on going to the keyboard, discover that it is, and repeat the same exercise with the same results often enough, then I have it??

Possibly
but what is your keyboard tuned to ?
A=440 , 442 ?
and if so do all HIP ensembles sound "out of tune"?

and also
one mustn't confuse a
Note ....... with a Frequency

there's a whole pile of stuff in many of the standard texts on music psychology
is an "A" with a vibrato that is 2 cents wide still an A ?
and is a sharp leading note "out of tune" ?

and the well known psychoacoustic things about Timpani which either sound like pitched instruments or "low rumbles" depending on context ?

When I was a music student we had a lecturer who claimed "perfect pitch" so he would wince if he heard a Gamelan or Indian music ......... what he really had done was condition himself to only accept as "musical" things in equal temperament

also

a very good friend of mine who is a choral director (and sometimes appears on R3 etc etc ) told me a great story of someone in one of his choirs who insisted that he had "perfect pitch" so would give the note for the choir ........... sneaky checking with a tuning fork proved that one day it might be at 440 then next at 448 etc etc

[Hornspieler]

Not too sure about this, but doesn't perfect pitch mean that if I sing a pitch, tell myself that this is Middle C, and on going to the keyboard, discover that it is, and repeat the same exercise with the same results often enough, then I have it??

I think the term"Perfect Pitch" is a misnomer.
A lot of people can claim to have "Pitch Recognition" to a greater or less degree, but the term which I have always heard used to describe someone who can actually sing (or whistle) an "A" (440, 442 or whatever) is "Absolute pitch" which can, of course be conditioned by one's environment.

For instance, many organs are tuned to a sharper pitch than concert pitch; so an organist might sing a sharper "A" than, for instance, a violinist.
For years, brass band and military band instruments were tuned to what was eroniously called "Sharp Pitch"
The fact that it was higher than "concert pitch" simply meant that it was different - not "sharp"

I have noticed in the past that Waldhorn, who has recently made a welcome return to these boards, knows quite a lot about pitch and how it has changed over the last few hundred years. Perhaps he might be prepared to comment.

HS

BTW Dennis Brain was an accomplished organist as well as being "the" horn player of his day and, before he started to achieve fame as a horn soloist, he already had been awarded a fellowship of the Royal College of Organists (FRCO)
He had "absolute pitch", but it was from hours of playing the organ. If he was to play a concerto, he would tune to the oboist's given "A" and then pull his tuning slide out by about a quarter of an inch.

Perhaps we are getting away too far from the subject of this thread. My apologies.

[Nick Armstrong]

Dennis Brain ... If he was to play a concerto, he would tune to the oboist's given "A" and then pull his tuning slide out by about a quarter of an inch.

How interesting, HS. Is that for the same reason as mentioned earlier - that he didn't sound 'sharp' but 'different'? In other words, it helped the sound he made to stand out from and ride over the orchestra?

[Hornspieler]

How interesting, HS. Is that for the same reason as mentioned earlier - that he didn't sound 'sharp' but 'different'? In other words, it helped the sound he made to stand out from and ride over the orchestra?

No. I believe it was because his ear told him a different story from what he was used to. The horn is one of the easiest instruments to vary the pitch (in one's head, as it were) and he knew that to actually be in tune with the orchestra, he had to start off with his instrument tuned slightly lower.

When I asked him about this, he said "...well, if I don't pull the slide out a fraction, I will find myself playing sharper than the orchestra."
Well, he certainly never did that in my experience.

HS

[Nick Armstrong]

No. I believe it was because his ear told him a different story from what he was used to. The horn is one of the easiest instruments to vary the pitch (in one's head, as it were) and he knew that to actually be in tune with the orchestra, he had to start off with his instrument tuned slightly lower.

When I asked him about this, he said "...well, if I don't pull the slide out a fraction, I will find myself playing sharper than the orchestra."
Well, he certainly never did that in my experience.

HS

Ah I see, thanks HS