When one irrelevance defends another....

[scottycelt]

I would agree that it is unrealistic that the pro-Republican case would gain little popular support, but that isn't the same thing as "having no case at all": if you'd said "no chance" I wouldn't have disagreed. Much. .

Yes, I agree with that.

My point isn't that the republican case has no decent arguments ... quite the reverse ... but simply if the people don't want it and much prefer (rightly or wrongly) the monarchy, there is indeed no case for a republic.

I'm taking a purely democratic view of the issue, though I do 'confess' to a personal preference for our Royal system anyway, as I consider the advantages greatly outweigh the disadvantages

If however things changed and a republic became the majority wish, I certainly wouldn't have a problem!

[MrGongGong]

There's no "democratic" view on keeping the monarchy as the monarchy is by definition undemocratic
wait till we have had a few years of meddling charlie

[Serial_Apologist]

Surely the point is that there never is a proper debate on monarchism vs republicanism in this country. It there was, and the issues on both sides presented and fully argued through, popular opinion might well change. Most people view the monarchy as like the weather, ie nothing than can be done about it, good or bad, and the problem woudl consist in getting a campaigning group large enough together to persuade the Powers That Be to arrange a properly debated referendum.

S-A

[scottycelt]

Surely the point is that there never is a proper debate on monarchism vs republicanism in this country.S-A

What is there to debate ... ?

One of the things that really struck me when I moved south was the extraordinary support for the monarchy among much of the English working-class. Of course the old working-class hardly exists now but there doesn't seem to be any less endorsement from the new middle-class.

Even in Scotland where republican sentiment has been relatively stronger a significant majority wishes to retain royalty according to all polls. In the most unlikely event that the Scots vote to leave the Union, the monarch will still be retained as head of state because former republicans like Alex Salmond & Co may be many things but they are canny enough to know it would be one horrendous vote-loser if they were even to begin talking about ditching the Queen.

S_A, are you really suggesting that the British people, at least those who are the slightest interested and might be inclined to vote in any future referendum on the subject, don't already know the difference between a monarchy and republic?

[teamsaint]

Feudal system still in place down here scotty. Chuck and his mum own most of the south and west, and employ us serfs if we are lucky, and the rest of the land is owned by the MOD, and their employees aren't turning republican any time soon........

[Serial_Apologist]

S_A, are you really suggesting that the British people, at least those who are the slightest interested and might be inclined to vote in any future referendum on the subject, don't already know the difference between a monarchy and republic?

What I was suggesting in my message - which unfortunately I messed up by somehow deleting part of! - was that not having the debate has the effect of disincentivising people from comprehensively thinking through the pros and cons, scotty.

[teamsaint]

perhaps they are not as irrelevant as they would have us believe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/feb/17/prince-charles-secret-veto-documents

WE will all have plenty of time to ponder this stuff this year,as we wait for the jubilee processions to come waving past, or as our bus sits in traffic jams caused by the olympic special lanes !!

[teamsaint]

And here they are, hard at work for UK plc.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kate-middleton-mingles-with-dictators-and-despots-839610

[mangerton]

And here they are, hard at work for UK plc.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...despots-839610

They sound a charming bunch, some of them. Just the very people I'd want to have lunch with.

[Ferretfancy]

They sound a charming bunch, some of them. Just the very people I'd want to have lunch with.

I had lunch with Prince Charles once, he spent quite a bit of the time singing the praises of actresses he met at premieres. Diana was still not divorced at the time.

Quite nice, but a bit dim.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

well we ditched the divine right a while back or so i thought .... i could not disagree more with you scottycelt ... there is no argument for Royalty only force .... all those nice chaps will shoot you if you attempt to dislodge her and not on any constitutional grounds .... they will just hate you and kill you without compunction .... i have met enough armed forces and police chaps to know that they are there ... mostly Freemasons and people of that sort ... and the great unwashed bask in a blather of sentimental and nostalgic bilge essentially ... and they will also not take kindly to the cold and lonely light of the republic eh ..... heaven forbid that we might actually reinvent ourselves as a civilised and rational nation ... without imperial nostalgia or militarist pretence .... and not run by a bunch of gamblers and their chums in politics and the aristocracy ... anyone for polo ....

[scottycelt]

well we ditched the divine right a while back or so i thought .... i could not disagree more with you scottycelt ... there is no argument for Royalty only force .... all those nice chaps will shoot you if you attempt to dislodge her and not on any constitutional grounds .... they will just hate you and kill you without compunction .... i have met enough armed forces and police chaps to know that they are there ... mostly Freemasons and people of that sort ... and the great unwashed bask in a blather of sentimental and nostalgic bilge essentially ... and they will also not take kindly to the cold and lonely light of the republic eh ..... heaven forbid that we might actually reinvent ourselves as a civilised and rational nation ... without imperial nostalgia or militarist pretence .... and not run by a bunch of gamblers and their chums in politics and the aristocracy ... anyone for polo ....

Whether you disagree with me or not on this issue is quite irrelevant, aka Calum Da Jazbo. Many wretched, misguided souls have done so (disagreed with me) in the past and no doubt will continue to do so in the future ... let's face it, there is nowt as queer as folk, right enough!

The latest opinion poll published only this morning reveals a stunning 80% in favour of retaining the monarchy ... even supporters of proportional representation like the AV system might just bring themselves to accept that as a possibly valid majority, so what you and I think about it doesn't matter a scrap in the great scheme of things!

The 'people' (whom republicans always claim to represent) continue to back the monarch massively, so end of story and surely any lingering, utterly pointless debate.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

futile yes pointless no

[amateur51]

Whether you disagree with me or not on this issue is quite irrelevant, aka Calum Da Jazbo. Many wretched, misguided souls have done so (disagreed with me) in the past and no doubt will continue to do so in the future ... let's face it, there is nowt as queer as folk, right enough!

The latest opinion poll published only this morning reveals a stunning 80% in favour of retaining the monarchy ... even supporters of proportional representation like the AV system might just bring themselves to accept that as a possibly valid majority, so what you and I think about it doesn't matter a scrap in the great scheme of things!

The 'people' (whom republicans always claim to represent) continue to back the monarch massively, so end of story and surely any lingering, utterly pointless debate.

Could this be because a less than attractive case for a republic is the only one that people hear about, scotty?

The good people of Ireland have been living in a republicfor decades now and the last election process was good to watch & they've chosen a cracker, tho it did appear to be touch & go for a while.

If you're constantly tell us we'll be trading in HMQ for President Blair or President Johnson then I wouldn't be surprised at the figues against a republioc that you quote. However make it President Bakewell or President Magnusson and people might think differently

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

and we could even dispense with the fetish of the individual and have a collective head of state just like the Swiss .... what would the Brit press do then?