When one irrelevance defends another....

[Bryn]

Edward the [nearly] Eighth?

Not "nearly", A51. The law of succession in this state decrees that the new monarch inherits that role on the death of the previous one. He was not crowned but he did become Edward VIII. That's why he had to abdicate, rather than simply turn down a job offer.

[teamsaint]

Resign? Oh so that's what you'd do if the going got tough?

You are talking from a position of ignorance teamsaint, in a manner hardly worthy of a forum such as this.

Give up the pay and perks? They have positions of responsibility, duties, they are told what to do, and get paid for it, and most of the money is paid to employees and for services, so there are many who have jobs and businesses because of the Royals.

And THEY haven't told me they work hard, I'm told by people who meet the Royals. With then as a figurehead e.g. charities and other organisations, the teams work very hard too and attract donations, that is one of main reasons for the charity's success.

I am speaking from a position of opinion, and principle.

If they don't like it they should stop.

Its not hard work , its the most extraordinary privilege, and one that they seem to keep hold of.

You think I am speaking from ignorance. I think you are disrespectful to the millions who really do work hard to keep the royals in their privilege and luxury.

Oh and yes, If I don't care for the job I am in, I have to resign and get another one. People do.

[amateur51]

Not "nearly", A51. The law of succession in this state decrees that the new monarch inherits that role on the death of the previous one. He was not crowned but he did become Edward VIII. That's why he had to abdicate, rather than simply turn down a job offer.

Point taken, Bryn

[Bryn]

I am speaking from a position of opinion, and principle.

If they don't like it they should stop.

Its not hard work , its the most extraordinary privilege, and and one that they seem to keep hold of.

You think I am speaking from ignorance. I think you are disrespectful to the millions who really do work hard to keep the royals in their privilege and luxury.

Oh and yes, If I don't care for the job I am in, I have to resign and get another one. People do.

One does not need to be a supporter of the monarchy to recognise that most of the principal royals do indeed put in a great deal of hard work. Certainly they are obscenely privileged, but that's another matter altogether. How many 85 year old women of your acquaintance put in as many hours work as Elizabeth Windsor does? Simply having to put up with the likes of Blair, Brown or Cameron during their weekly meetings should earn her at least a modicum of respect, let alone all the other work she does. Get rid of the monarchy, by all means. I'm all for getting shot of the institution, but don't kid yourself that that bunch do not, on the whole, work damned hard at the jobs they inherited.

[ahinton]

I am speaking from a position of opinion

Well, at least you admit it.

Its not hard work , its the most extraordinary privilege, and and one that they seem to keep hold of.

You think I am speaking from ignorance. I think you are disrespectful to the millions who really do work hard to keep the royals in their privilege and luxury.

For one thing, it is hard work (especially that done by the Queen, as Bryn rightly points out) and I for one would not wish to be saddled with the responsibility for doing it; for another, you miss the point that the British royal family are not kept in positions of wealth by hardworking millions of British citizens - they have ample private wealth already that runs to many tens of thousands of times the amount that any one of its members might otherwise expect to receive as a salary for doing that kind of work if employed by someone else to do it.

[eighthobstruction]

>>>>'ample private wealth'<<<<....and endless plates of biscuits ....and kilts too !!!....what joy !!!....

[teamsaint]

They are in a position of privilege, paid for by their "subjects" over many generations, including this one.

Of course they want us to think that its hard work.....they would be pretty daft if they told us it was easy street.

I wonder what an average day looks like?

Get up. (not very early).
Have bath/shower. Put on clothes ironed and cleaned by staff.
Have breakfast. Made and cleaned up by staff.
Have a meeting perhaps, about engagements.

Go to an official engagement, driven by staff.
Spend an hour or two meeting people.
Have lunch , made and cleaned up by others.

Maybe another appointment.
Get driven home.
Have a nice drink. (fair enough after a days work).
Have dinner, (made and cleaned up by others).

Evening. Relaxing. (most ordinary working people are doing chores, work they have to bring home, fixing things,running the kids around, second jobs etc etc).

That is a working day, and they don't do 48 weeks a year 5 days a week like most people.They seem to be on holiday a lot. (unless the mail makes their holiday photos up, which is possible).

As to most 85 year old women I know...........they are exhausted and living in care homes or on tiny incomes, after a lifetime of real hard work.(having had to sell their home for that particular "privilege")

As I said before, if its so tough, no one is making them do it. Most of us do jobs we don't like to house and feed and educate our families.

[amateur51]

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=1307&

[John Wright]

The Royals, especially the Queen and Phillip, do have a hard/difficult job, especially at their age, but they've done it for over 50 years .

That daily routine you posted is just like those civil servants and managers in private section that I mentioned in my previous posting. Indeed I had a similar job for 2 years in the USA, as a sort of technical ambassador, so every week I was flying to Pittsburgh, Detroit, Baltimore etc and then hiring a Cadillac or similar to drive to some small town, have meetings in factories or offices for hours, staying at Marriot's etc having nice meals, paid very well, it sounds great, but it was bloody hard work!

teamsaint, I'll just have to accept that you are so out of touch you cannot comprehend.

Of course they want us to think that its hard work.....they would be pretty daft if they told us it was easy street.

I wonder what an average day looks like?
Get up. (not very early).
Have bath/shower. Put on clothes ironed and cleaned by staff.
Have breakfast. Made and cleaned up by staff.
Have a meeting perhaps, about engagements.

Go to an official engagement, driven by staff.
Spend an hour or two meeting people.
Have lunch , made and cleaned up by others.

Maybe another appointment.
Get driven home.
Have a nice drink. (fair enough after a days work).
Have dinner, (made and cleaned up by others).

Evening. Relaxing. (most ordinary working people are doing chores, work they have to bring home, fixing things,running the kids around, second jobs etc etc).

That is a working day, and they don't do 48 weeks a year 5 days a week like most people.

[ahinton]

They are in a position of privilege, paid for by their "subjects" over many generations, including this one.

Er - how do you contribute directly to the maintenance of those positions of privilege out of your income, then?

Of course they want us to think that its hard work.....they would be pretty daft if they told us it was easy street.

But do they? When did you last hear any of them - the Queen especially - moaning and whingeing about the extent and onerous nature of the duties that they're obliged to carry out?

I wonder what an average day looks like?

Get up. (not very early).
Have bath/shower. Put on clothes ironed and cleaned by staff.
Have breakfast. Made and cleaned up by staff.
Have a meeting perhaps, about engagements.

Go to an official engagement, driven by staff.
Spend an hour or two meeting people.
Have lunch , made and cleaned up by others.

Maybe another appointment.
Get driven home.
Have a nice drink. (fair enough after a days work).
Have dinner, (made and cleaned up by others).

Evening. Relaxing. (most ordinary working people are doing chores, work they have to bring home, fixing things,running the kids around, second jobs etc etc).

That is a working day, and they don't do 48 weeks a year 5 days a week like most people.They seem to be on holiday a lot. (unless the mail makes their holiday photos up, which is possible).

Do you actually know what the day to day working hours of any royal family members are - or how many days' holiday per year any of them actually take? And how many married couples aged 90 and 85 respectively spend any of their after work their time "running the kids around" or doing "second jobs"?

As to most 85 year old women I know...........they are exhausted and living in care homes or on tiny incomes, after a lifetime of real hard work.(having had to sell their home for that particular "privilege")

But what's that got to do with the subject? And how and to what extent might your view be different - ore at least tempered - if you also knew a number of ladies aged 85 who live in their own homes or in expensive nursing homes where they've not had to sell their homes in order to afford nursing home accommodation and care.

As I said before, if its so tough, no one is making them do it. Most of us do jobs we don't like to house and feed and educate our families.

I didn't say that it was or wasn't "tough"; you, however, seem to be of the view that work is only hard work when it's unpleasant to do. The royals don't "have" to do it, to be sure and they certainly don't need to do it for the money, but can you seriously imagine the Queen saying "stuff this for a lark - one has had more than enough of all this work and one thinks that, at an age that's a whole quarter century higher than the current state retirement age for women, it's high time that one put up one's feet and retired" and then packing it all in to live the life of old Reilly unencumbered by any state or other duties or responsibilities of any kind? If so, your imagination does you discredit for its over-fertility!

[teamsaint]

The Royals, especially the Queen and Phillip, do have a hard/difficult job, especially at their age, but they've done it for over 50 years .

That daily routine you posted is just like those civil servants and managers in private section that I mentioned in my previous posting. Indeed I had a similar job for 2 years in the USA, as a sort of technical ambassador, so every week I was flying to Pittsburgh, Detroit, Baltimore etc and then hiring a Cadillac or similar to drive to some small town, have meetings in factories or offices for hours, staying at Marriot's etc having nice meals, paid very well, it sounds great, but it was bloody hard work!

teamsaint, I'll just have to accept that you are so out of touch you cannot comprehend.

out of touch with what, exactly? life for the privileged elites?

Perhaps I am just too dim to be able to figure out how tough life is for the royals.

Oh, and I have spent a spell as a civil servant, and it wasn't the hard work that made me quit !!

When I see the royals having to give sell their only posession of any worth after a lifetime of work, so that they can fade away quietly in a care home, then I will discuss how hard life is for them.

John , if we are discusssing "out of touch" ,some people might suggest that you are out of touch with the way that most people have to work to make a living. But I won't suggest that, because maybe you aren't.

[MrGongGong]

I think the whole
"they work hard for us" script is largely "received wisdom"
it's part of the "script" that we are all supposed to go along with
other parts of the same narrative are

"all soldiers are heroes"
"petrol is expensive"
"we all are fascinated by football"
"young people are rude and self centred"
"all disabled people on benefits are fraudsters"
"we have an epidemic of alcohol problems that is confined to the lower classes"
"rain is bad, sun is good"
"the alternative to the Royal Family is president Blair"


etc etc

fiction is a powerful thing indeed

[teamsaint]

Er - how do you contribute directly to the maintenance of those positions of privilege out of your income, then?


But do they? When did you last hear any of them - the Queen especially - moaning and whingeing about the extent and onerous nature of the duties that they're obliged to carry out?


Do you actually know what the day to day working hours of any royal family members are - or how many days' holiday per year any of them actually take? And how many married couples aged 90 and 85 respectively spend any of their after work their time "running the kids around" or doing "second jobs"?


But what's that got to do with the subject? And how and to what extent might your view be different - ore at least tempered - if you also knew a number of ladies aged 85 who live in their own homes or in expensive nursing homes where they've not had to sell their homes in order to afford nursing home accommodation and care.


I didn't say that it was or wasn't "tough"; you, however, seem to be of the view that work is only hard work when it's unpleasant to do. The royals don't "have" to do it, to be sure and they certainly don't need to do it for the money, but can you seriously imagine the Queen saying "stuff this for a lark - one has had more than enough of all this work and one thinks that, at an age that's a whole quarter century higher than the current state retirement age for women, it's high time that one put up one's feet and retired" and then packing it all in to live the life of old Reilly unencumbered by any state or other duties or responsibilities of any kind? If so, your imagination does you discredit for its over-fertility!

My suggestions of a working day was a bit of fun.(but I don't suppose its that far from the truth). I would have thought that was obvious.

If you are happy being a subject, and allowing hereditary wealth and privilege to continue unabated, then that is your choice.

One point I will bother to reply to, the point about 85 year olds is indeed relevant. The royal 85 year olds do not have to put up with what much of the rest of the population put up with. They enjoy the best of everything, including, not coincidentally, very good health. People who work really hard through their lives, (the sorts of jobs I mentioned,) are often physically worn out at 85, and these days at the mercy of harsh economic conditions.That is the relevance.

I shall now leave all you subjects to enjoy this thread without me.

Probably .

[anotherbob]

According to the following prayer, available FOC at http://www.churchofengland.org/ HMQ is only following orders, something to which her family's countrymen have been prone over the years.

God of time and eternity,
whose Son reigns as servant, not master;
we give you thanks and praise
that you have blessed this Nation, the Realms and Territories
with Elizabeth
our beloved and glorious Queen.
In this year of Jubilee,
grant her your gifts of love and joy and peace
as she continues in faithful obedience to you, her Lord and God
and in devoted service to her lands and peoples,
and those of the Commonwealth,
now and all the days of her life;
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen.

As long as we have people prepared to give countenance to stuff like this there is no hope

[Lateralthinking1]

Oh, and I have spent a spell as a civil servant, and it wasn't the hard work that made me quit !!

Mine was nearly always hard work. Frequently exhausted. Often got home at 9pm or afterwards, at one point travelled abroad on Sundays, balanced the face-to-face demands of Ministers, managers, staff and the public, part of a very small team that dealt with over 500,000 responses, needed to get to grips with complex technical matters, also arrange, chair or be the secretary at meetings as required, and much more, all on an average salary. Not universal but also not at all unusual at headquarters.

As for anotherbob's "obedience", are we better off if someone like Stephen Hester is made aware of the concept? I think so.
An absolutely wonderful code for anyone in very high positions to live by when in service to the public, let alone any god.