Is Christianity Being Marginalised?

[amateur51]

What's that got to do with it ...?

It's not a question whether you or I believe in the power of prayer or not, it's whether others believe it exists and wish to avail themselves of the practice. If they feel it might be of benefit in such cases what others believe is somewhat irrelevant.

Well I'm sure that some of those who suffered under the hands of St Theresa of Calcutta may well have felt differently

[amateur51]

Having recently been in this position I would much rather trust my life to someone who has dedicated their life and considerable intelligence to learning about the human body and what to do when it goes wrong than some nebulous "god" who might decide to help but there again might not.
It strikes me that its a bit like the entirely bogus practice of homeopathy, fine for people who are reasonably healthy and have nothing really wrong with themselves and have money to waste. However, when we start to think (as some homeopathic charlatans do ) that it can be applied to real illness then the consequences are that people die having put their "faith" in sugar pills or some idea of "god" that will intervene.

I hope it all went OK MrGG and that you're on the road to recovery now

[scottycelt]

Having recently been in this position I would much rather trust my life to someone who has dedicated their life and considerable intelligence to learning about the human body and what to do when it goes wrong than some nebulous "god" who might decide to help but there again might not.
It strikes me that its a bit like the entirely bogus practice of homeopathy, fine for people who are reasonably healthy and have nothing really wrong with themselves and have money to waste. However, when we start to think (as some homeopathic charlatans do ) that it can be applied to real illness then the consequences are that people die having put their "faith" in sugar pills or some idea of "god" that will intervene.

With whom you would entrust your life is your own affair, Mr GG, and absolutely no business of anyone else ...

Fortunately, exactly the same applies to the rest of us!

[Ferretfancy]

Consciousness affects the physical world. Quantum physics clearly proves this.
even from a sceptical point of view, once you accept this, it makes the issue of "prayer" a rather more interesting one.

There was a faith healer of Deal
Who said that although pain isn't real
If I sit on a pin and it punctures my skin
I dislike what I fancy I feel.

There is no evidence from quantum physics that conscious thought on the part of an observer can change anything in the physical world.

[MrGongGong]

With whom you would entrust your life is your own affair, Mr GG, and absolutely no business of anyone else ...

Fortunately, exactly the same applies to the rest of us!

Indeed , but there are (as with the case of homeopathy) dangerous people out there who encourage the weak and vulnerable to trust in some fictional deity at the expense of something that will actually be beneficial. One only has to see the endless procession of the gullible making the trek to Lourdes, some of whom will abandon the treatment that WILL cure them in favour of superstition which will make things much much worse.......

[John Skelton]

than .. 'fingers crossed, mate ..' ...

Or break a leg?

[MrGongGong]

Or break a leg?

Which is exactly what an actor friend of mine sent me in a text just before my operation

[scottycelt]

Well I'm sure that some of those who suffered under the hands of St Theresa of Calcutta may well have felt differently

For an outsider, your knowledge of everything Catholic is quite staggering, Ams ... I salute you!

Can you kindly confirm when the revered Mother Theresa was finally canonised 'cos nobody, not even that rascal Pope Benedict, told me ... !!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

ok you pray i'll whistle

when these advocates of prayer had real power they were evil bastards .... that is why they should remain marginal ....

[teamsaint]

There was a faith healer of Deal
Who said that although pain isn't real
If I sit on a pin and it punctures my skin
I dislike what I fancy I feel.

There is no evidence from quantum physics that conscious thought on the part of an observer can change anything in the physical world.

observation affects the behaviour of particles.Nobody has explained how as far as i am aware.
There may well be levels of consciousness that we are only partially aware of. plenty of very smart people think this, and it would start to explain a lot.

[scottycelt]

Most unusually, I am in some agreement with Ferret on this ...

At my last job the answer to all staff complaints was 'positive thinking' ... well, cloud-cuckoo-land thought overcoming simple reality has certainly never happened to me.

However, I daresay management found it extremely useful ...

[amateur51]

For an outsider, your knowledge of everything Catholic is quite staggering, Ams ... I salute you!

Can you kindly confirm when the revered Mother Theresa was finally canonised 'cos nobody, not even that rascal Pope Benedict, told me ... !!

Sorry, scotty - Irony hat on

She's up for one tho', isn't she?

I keep telling you, I'm not an outsider, scotty - as a British tax payer and 'citizen' I am interested in any organisation that seeks tax relief on its activities but wants to pick and choose which laws it obeys. This is not confined to the Catholic Church of course, but I do have a vested interest as I hope that you can see.

[scottycelt]

Sorry, scotty - Irony hat on

She's up for one tho', isn't she?

I keep telling you, I'm not an outsider, scotty - as a British tax payer and 'citizen' I am interested in any organisation that seeks tax relief on its activities but wants to pick and choose which laws it obeys. This is not confined to the Catholic Church of course, but I do have a vested interest as I hope that you can see.

You're just a mere 'subject', Ams, so don't get ideas above your station ....

[Ferretfancy]

Most unusually, I am in some agreement with Ferret on this ...

At my last job the answer to all staff complaints was 'positive thinking' ... well, cloud-cuckoo-land thought overcoming simple reality has certainly never happened to me.

However, I daresay management found it extremely useful ...

Well, thanks for that scotty! The point that I tried to make was that.although it's true that the act of observation affects behaviour at a quantum level, this change is not caused by any conscious thought on the part of the observer, it just happens. This is certainly mysterious, but there is no reason to posit a supernatural cause.
To be fair, I don't think that religious people often invoke the mysteries of quantum physics to justify their beliefs, but all sorts of cultists do. It's a convenient let out for supporters of the paranormal.

[vinteuil]

To be fair, I don't think that religious people often invoke the mysteries of quantum physics to justify their beliefs, but all sorts of cultists do. It's a convenient let out for supporters of the paranormal.

nicely put.

Yes, I fear that quantum physics - like the Heisenberg Uncertainty - is/are used by many who don't really understand the physics as a marvellous free ticket to say "I told you so - 'There are more things in heaven and earth... Than are dreamt of in your philosophy...' " - and to allow in all sorts of mumbo-jumbo which the serious physics behind a quantum understanding in nowise entertains...