Is Christianity Being Marginalised?

[BBMmk2]

With recent events from councils being told not hold prayers at Council chamber meetings, and other infiltrations in our culture, i am getting the feeling that Christianity is being marginalised by pressure groups. there is one such group, i saw in the paper yesterday who hope that both Houses of Parliament will cease to hold prayers to?

[rauschwerk]

The ruling concerned prayers as an agenda item The councillor who brought the case did not wish to participate in prayer but if he entered the chamber after prayers were over he was marked as late, which he did not want. Nobody is trying to stop councillors meeting for prayer before meetings.

This has nothing to do with the marginalisation of Christianity, in my view.

[Warwick]

Christianity is not being marginalised in Britian, what remains of it is being completely extinguished.
Lord Carey is quite right about dark forces. These forces are operating at the highest level in the judiciary, the armed forces, and society at large.

[Flosshilde]

I haven't read the full judgement, & I don't think the media have headlined (sorry ) it, but from what was said on 'Any Questions' on FRiday I think that it said that prayers shouldn't be part of the formal procedings, but that there is no legislation that says that prayers shouldn't be said by those who wish to before the formal meeting begins. Saying prayers, however, shouldn't be a way of excluding people from the decision making.

In answer to the larger question - no, I don't think Christianity is being marginalised. It's becoming less of an 'official' religion, which, given the wide range of religions, and the large number of people who have no religion, is reasonable. The personal observation of religious practice is becoming marginal, with a very small part of the population attending CofE churches.

[Flosshilde]

Lord Carey is quite right about dark forces. These forces are operating at the highest level in the judiciary, the armed forces, and society at large.

They might well be, but I don't think it has anything to do with religion

[gurnemanz]

They might well be, but I don't think it has anything to do with religion

Good and funny point, Floss.

I don't think Christianity is being marginalised. It is simply marginal.
To me it is comical anachronism that intelligent men and women, when meeting together with the aim of taking rational decisions on local matters, seriously believe that their deliberations might in some way be subject to the intervention of a supernatural being, with whom they need to attempt to communicate as the first item on their agenda.

[MrGongGong]

Good and funny point, Floss.

I don't think Christianity is being marginalised. It is simply marginal.
To me it is comical anachronism that intelligent men and women, when meeting together with the aim of taking rational decisions on local matters, seriously believe that their deliberations might in some way be subject to the intervention of a supernatural being, with whom they need to attempt to communicate as the first item on their agenda.

Indeed
There's no problem in people believing anything they like
but to have a certain world view placed above reason is ridiculous

Bush and Blairs prayers before the gulf war hardly inspire one with confidence that their imaginary friend will bestow wisdom !

[anotherbob]

I don't think Christianity is being marginalised. It is simply marginal.

I hope this won't be another God vs. Dawkins discussion as seems to happen when religion crops up on the web.
The point here is about the rights of individuals to follow their own beliefs, or lack thereof. It is anachronistic for formal prayers to be required as an agenda item in a Council chamber, and for that matter in the Houses of Parliament. The place for prayers is in Church or in private. One senior cleric sensibly observed that Councillors could easily pray in private before meetings. Does anyone believe that prayers offered up in that way would be of less value to the deity concerned or the individual?

[amateur51]

I hope this won't be another God vs. Dawkins discussion as seems to happen when religion crops up on the web.
The point here is about the rights of individuals to follow their own beliefs, or lack thereof. It is anachronistic for formal prayers to be required as an agenda item in a Council chamber, and for that matter in the Houses of Parliament. The place for prayers is in Church or in private. One senior cleric sensibly observed that Councillors could easily pray in private before meetings. Does anyone believe that prayers offered up in that way would be of less value to the deity concerned or the individual?

No-one can object to Christian councillors, MPs, people of other religious persuasions, praying before an official meeting as long as it doesn't prevent others from taking their places in the meeting room and as long as it is not on the agenda. Like-minded people just agree to meet 10 minutes before the meeting to pray in another room - simples

[gamba]

Has anyone found that prayers actually work ? I think 'Which' shoud do a series of tests & let us know the outcome.

I'm fed-up reading about 'fridges & vacuum cleaners - time they got involved in more important matters !

[Pabmusic]

I haven't read the full judgement, & I don't think the media have headlined (sorry ) it, but from what was said on 'Any Questions' on FRiday I think that it said that prayers shouldn't be part of the formal procedings, but that there is no legislation that says that prayers shouldn't be said by those who wish to before the formal meeting begins. Saying prayers, however, shouldn't be a way of excluding people from the decision making.

In answer to the larger question - no, I don't think Christianity is being marginalised. It's becoming less of an 'official' religion, which, given the wide range of religions, and the large number of people who have no religion, is reasonable. The personal observation of religious practice is becoming marginal, with a very small part of the population attending CofE churches.

You are absolutely right. The judgement said that prayers cannot be part of the formal meeting (ie: part of the agenda). It seems that the judge specifically said that they could hold prayers separately, but councillors could not be required to attend. Seems absolutely right to me. What I was surprised about was that the holding of formal prayers had been used to make someone attend against their will, or else have it minuted that he was late.

[Beef Oven]

I am becoming increasingly concerned that marginality is becoming Christianalised.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

You are absolutely right. The judgement said that prayers cannot be part of the formal meeting (ie: part of the agenda). It seems that the judge specifically said that they could hold prayers separately, but councillors could not be required to attend. Seems absolutely right to me. What I was surprised about was that the holding of formal prayers had been used to make someone attend against their will, or else have it minuted that he was late.

Yes, this is how I understood the ruling. Rather than "marginalizing" Christianity, the ruling made clear that Christians should not impose their practices upon others. I don't see how anyone could object to this.

[teamsaint]

Indeed
There's no problem in people believing anything they like
but to have a certain world view placed above reason is ridiculous

Bush and Blairs prayers before the gulf war hardly inspire one with confidence that their imaginary friend will bestow wisdom !

religion? Reason? the goalposts are always moving, or being made to move.

At the everyday level, everything that distracts from the bad things being imposed on ordinary people by those with (often unaccountable) power is bad. We need to focus very clearly on what is happening,why, and how we can influence things for the better.
Distractions include things like arguments over formal religion, x factor, marginal difference in party politics, football, etc etc.

at another level, the understanding that we are all inter connected in the most profound way must inform how we behave, individually and collectively.

Acting on this is easy to say, and less easy to do.

[amateur51]

Has anyone found that prayers actually work ? I think 'Which' shoud do a series of tests & let us know the outcome.

I'm fed-up reading about 'fridges & vacuum cleaners - time they got involved in more important matters !

A sketch by John Cleese based, I think, on a sketch written for That Was The Week That Was, entitled A Consumer's Guide To Religion' by Robert Gillespie and Charles Lewsen

http://www.4shared.com/mp3/C-6Am8S_/john_cleese_-_consumers_guide_.html