Six nations 2012

**LHC** · 09-02-12, 16:27

aeolium,

I am suggesting that the Ireland management may be interpreting the disciplinary committee's statement that:

"The Committee, after careful analysis of the video evidence and consideration of the player's and his representative's explanation of the tackle, did not uphold the citing,"

to mean that the tackle was fine and should not have been penalised. However, that is not what the statement says. It says the citing by the Italian commissioner was not upheld (ie that it was not a red card offence). The Committee is silent on whether or not the penalty and yellow card were OK. If the committee had been sufficiently concerned by Barnes' original decision, they could have said so and rescinded the yellow card. They did not.

Kearney and others would have been at the hearing to give evidence. I doubt that they were party to the committee's deliberations after they had heard all the evidence.

I prefer to rely on the Committee's own statements rather than any subsequent gloss put on them by management teams and journalists.

**aeolium** · 09-02-12, 17:39

It's surprising though that Kearney should have interpreted the statement of the committee to mean that the penalty and yellow card should not have been awarded (if that is what he did) when it says nothing about that, which leads me to think that he has some other source of information for their views on the matter.

Anyway, I think the referee got both decisions wrong and the committee has taken the right decisions (pointless to rescind the yellow card when its effect had already been felt) so I am essentially in agreement with Kearney, whether or not he is correct about the committee's views about the tackle by Ferris.

**Anna** · 09-02-12, 17:56

I have no wish to get into technicalities about the two tackles. In my view Davies deserved a red card and lengthy ban. I really cannot believe how stupid he could have been (to be honest, he is not the sharpest knife in the box) As Gatland said, some things you get away with on Club level, at International Level you cannot. Personally, and speaking as an ardent Wales supporter, I would rather have seen Wales lose to Ireland than to have one idiot bring the whole Welsh team and the Welsh Nation into disrepute which made a victory turn to sour ashes in the mouth

**LHC** · 10-02-12, 15:27

Originally posted by aeolium View Post

It's surprising though that Kearney should have interpreted the statement of the committee to mean that the penalty and yellow card should not have been awarded (if that is what he did) when it says nothing about that, which leads me to think that he has some other source of information for their views on the matter.

Anyway, I think the referee got both decisions wrong and the committee has taken the right decisions (pointless to rescind the yellow card when its effect had already been felt) so I am essentially in agreement with Kearney, whether or not he is correct about the committee's views about the tackle by Ferris.

aeolium,

Sorry to come back to this, but the IRB have issued a clarification following the furore surrounding Kearney's comments:

" IRB and Six Nations Joint Statement of Clarification
For immediate release: Friday 10th February 2012
The International Rugby Board and Six Nations have backed Referee Wayne Barnes over the penalty decision that led to Ireland's Stephen Ferris being yellow carded during the RBS 6 Nations match at the Aviva Stadium on February 5.

While an Independent Six Nations Disciplinary Panel did not ultimately uphold the citing, the IRB’s match officials performance review endorsed Barnes' decision to award a penalty. On first viewing the panel could understand exactly how the match referee came to his decision. In dismissing the citing no criticism of the referee’s on field decision should be taken or inferred. It was only after careful and prolonged analysis of the dynamics of the contact, including slow motion and step by step viewing, that the committee was able to see the strength of the submissions made in favour of Stephen Ferris.

All match officials are selected for International competition on merit. Performances are reviewed on an ongoing basis and taken into consideration when appointments are made for future international competitions.

Neither organisation will make any further comment on this matter."

So it seems Kearney had no basis for his comments and, as I suggested, the disciplinary committee have confirmed that the penalty and yellow card for Ferris was essentially correct.

**aeolium** · 10-02-12, 15:45

Then you were right about the committee's opinion and Kearney and I were wrong. I still think the DT article was essentially right, and the officials were wrong about the Ferris tackle (the TV panel after the match were IIRC unanimous in feeling that it didn't even deserve a penalty). It beggars belief that anyone looking at the two tackles could think that they merited the same punishment, even without the benefit of slow-motion replay. The committee has been imo too protective of the match officials. What they ought to have done is clarify exactly what sort of tip tackle merits a red card since there is clearly confusion in the officials' minds - the touch judge recommended a yellow card for Davies even though that tackle was worse than Warburton's in the World Cup.

**Anna** · 10-02-12, 15:48

Well tomorrow is another day and we have three matches which, hopefully, will be incident free as regards reds and yellows. I think the France v Ireland game will be very tight, Ireland hurting after their defeat last Saturday, the England v Italy probably pretty boring and more of a training exercise although Italy have maintained their progress (and I would love them to progress even more) and as to Wales v Scotland, well Scotland desparately need to up their game after literally throwing it away last week so it'll be interesting to see what they come up with.

**aeolium** · 10-02-12, 15:54

I think Italy could give England a run for their money - they can be a tough proposition at home and previous encounters in Rome have ended up with close wins for England. Scotland ought to do much better than their results show - they are poorly coached by Robinson who has them playing too negatively (why on earth did Parks start last week?) I don't think France are as good as they think and Ireland might press them. Anyway let's hope for good games free of cards.

**Anna** · 10-02-12, 16:15

Originally posted by aeolium View Post

I think Italy could give England a run for their money - they can be a tough proposition at home and previous encounters in Rome have ended up with close wins for England.

Yes, I forgot the match is in Rome, so that makes it more interesting of course, being on home turf is a boost! Ireland have not lost back-to-back Six Nation matches since 2005 (coincidentally, they were also against France and Wales)

Like you I'm just hoping for some clean, controversy free, exciting, passionate, games. So, you think Scotland are poorly coached? That's interesting, rather than calibre of players? Do you not think a team can rise above the coaching? France certainly did, by having a Mutiny, in the World Cup! Perhaps Scotland should have a Braveheart moment!

**aeolium** · 10-02-12, 18:08

I think it's partly a matter of confidence with Scotland and that has to do with the coaching. Too often they have been encouraged to play a kicking game (and why would you pick Parks unless you were playing that kind of game?) and that means when they do run it there are handling errors and they don't run with confidence, unlike Wales. They have some very good players, and Glasgow, who provides a lot of them, are 3rd in the Celtic league. Why are the Scottish clubs scoring plenty of tries and the national team cannot manage one? Down to the coach I feel. I'd like to see them come good just once this championship, but not on Sunday please

**Anna** · 11-02-12, 16:51

OMG!!! Is anyone watching Italy v England? If not, (if you have one of those fancy time shifting machines) rewind to 37th minute in first half!

Edit: Sorry, I get over excited! Well, if they can play in the snow in Rome, why are they having pitch inspection re tonight's France v Ireland to see if the match will go ahead?

**Nick Armstrong** · 11-02-12, 17:46

Originally posted by Anna View Post

OMG!!! Is anyone watching Italy v England?
Edit: Sorry, I get over excited!

Yes I have been (sufficiently gripped not to be looking here...). Relaxed slightly when the Italian penalty went well wide. Good stuff, ain't it! Young Farrell having a good day among the sleet

**David Underdown** · 11-02-12, 17:46

I think ambient temp lower in Paris, so pitch may be (literally) frozen solid. Bloody dangerous to fall on

**Anna** · 11-02-12, 17:59

Originally posted by Caliban View Post

Yes I have been (sufficiently gripped not to be looking here...). Relaxed slightly when the Italian penalty went well wide. Good stuff, ain't it! Young Farrell having a good day among the sleet

And, in 74th minute, some BBC commentator, said "Oh, look at the Italians, tempramental or what?"

OK, England eventually did good, I was quite impressed with them. Actually, it was a more thrills and spills match than I had expected and, I enjoyed it. I liked the steam coming off the scrums, wonderful photographs

**aka Calum Da Jazbo** · 11-02-12, 18:14

good result away from home; Dickson made a major difference and the Italians should not have subbed Bolton as he might well have nailed the penalties ...

**Nick Armstrong** · 11-02-12, 20:27

Err.... that's enough rugby for today (Ed.)

...parce qu'il fait froid...

Six nations 2012

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