Music you've known about but never heard until recently

[pmartel]

To-day for the FIRST TIME while at work I heard Arnold Schoenberg's 'Guerrelieder' I was hooked. but unfornately NOT on the rest of his music

Mostly Schoenberg's later music truly turned me off and maybe that is why I avoided listening to it, BUT at some point I will be purchasing a copy as I want to explore this LATE romantic work before the shift to atonalism.

I was reminded of Wagner on steroids, either way a work worth listening too

[Mahlerei]

I thought Wagner was on steroids...

Try Schonberg's arrangements of Mahler's Wayfarer songs (Orchestra of the Swan/Woods, SOMM); remarkable distillations all and, on this disc, very well sung.

[Serial_Apologist]

I was reminded of Wagner on steroids, either way a work worth listening too

Not a bad description, pmartel!

However, I would urge you not to give up on the later Schoenberg!

After Gurrelieder, try the wonderful String Quartet of 1905, then the Chamber Symphony No 1 of 1906, once you have fully experienced the manner in which growing contrapuntal complexity in these two works, strongly founded in Bach and the late Beethoven quartets, is pulling at the tonal fabric, you should be able to go on to the Second Quartet of 1907, and feel the transition taking you beyond tonality at various points, especially in the finale, and returning you safe and well at the very end of this remarkable work. Then come back here, and tell us how it went!

All the music of Schoenberg and his pupils came to me via Radio 3 in the first instance, in the good ole days when R3 was educational; I taped as much as I could, bought the rest on LPs and CDs, and was able to discover that there is no clearly defined break off point from tonality to atonality; indeed, tonality,. or vestiges of tonal harmonic shifts, can be found right through Schoenberg's music, even in some works from the 12-tone phase.

Best of luck!

S-A

[pmartel]

Not a bad description, pmartel!

However, I would urge you not to give up on the later Schoenberg!

After Gurrelieder, try the wonderful String Quartet of 1905, then the Chamber Symphony No 1 of 1906, once you have fully experienced the manner in which growing contrapuntal complexity in these two works, strongly founded in Bach and the late Beethoven quartets, is pulling at the tonal fabric, you should be able to go on to the Second Quartet of 1907, and feel the transition taking you beyond tonality at various points, especially in the finale, and returning you safe and well at the very end of this remarkable work. Then come back here, and tell us how it went!

All the music of Schoenberg and his pupils came to me via Radio 3 in the first instance, in the good ole days when R3 was educational; I taped as much as I could, bought the rest on LPs and CDs, and was able to discover that there is no clearly defined break off point from tonality to atonality; indeed, tonality,. or vestiges of tonal harmonic shifts, can be found right through Schoenberg's music, even in some works from the 12-tone phase.

Best of luck!

S-A

Will do, I am quite intrigued by the 'Guerrelieder' One can only imagine what MAY have happened had he stayed the course.

The thing I LOVE about classical music is just when you THINK you MAY know everything there is, something comes along you weren't aware of.

On yesterday's 'Performance To-day' on Public Radio was a performance of Max Reger's 'Romantic Suite

Lot's of interesting 'musically accessible' goodies to discover

[Panjandrum]

To-day for the FIRST TIME while at work I heard Arnold Schoenberg's 'Guerrelieder' I was hooked. but unfornately NOT on the rest of his music

Mostly Schoenberg's later music truly turned me off and maybe that is why I avoided listening to it, BUT at some point I will be purchasing a copy as I want to explore this LATE romantic work before the shift to atonalism.

I was reminded of Wagner on steroids, either way a work worth listening too

I think you'll enjoy AS' tone poem, Pelleas und Melisande, the string sextet Verklarte Nacht as well, for their full-on opulence. In a similar vein I would recommend Zemlinsky's "Eine Lyrische Symphonie" and Webern's early "Im Sommerwind"; all composed before they got the serialist bug. Berg's early song cycle, the near eponymously named "Altenberg Lieder" and Szymanowski's second symphony all evince similar sumptuous scoring.

[cloughie]

I think you'll enjoy AS' tone poem, Pelleas und Melisande, the string sextet Verklarte Nacht as well, for their full-on opulence. In a similar vein I would recommend Zemlinsky's "Eine Lyrische Symphonie" and Webern's early "Im Sommerwind"; all composed before they got the serialist bug. Berg's early song cycle, the near eponymously named "Altenberg Lieder" and Szymanowski's second symphony all evince similar sumptuous scoring.

If you have access to iplayer try Webern: Langsamer Satz on Monday's Lunchtime Concert.

[Bryn]

May I suggest Hilary Hahn's recording of the Violin Concerto, considered by Stravinsky to be one of the best violin concertos, and he was not exactly Schoenberg's greatest fan.

[Vile Consort]

I've ordered a copy of Messiaen's Vingt Regards which I have only ever heard fragments of. Should arrive tomorrow!

[Bryn]

I've ordered a copy of Messiaen's Vingt Regards which I have only ever heard fragments of. Should arrive tomorrow!

Which recording have you ordered? One not to overlook is that by Paul Kim. It was that recording which Barrington-Coupe tweaked a little and claimed to be a performance by his ailing wife, Joyce Hatto. In that guise the recording won considerable plaudits.

[Chris Newman]

Definitely try other works by Schonberg. I started with Gurrelieder and now have five recordings of the work. Pelleas and Melisande is beautiful too. There are works like Verklarte Nacht which make gentle introductions to the harder pieces. Naxos have issued some brilliant recodings conducted by the wonderful Robert Craft which provide an inexpensive way into this fascinating composer. I am currently in love with Craft's recording of Schonberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra . This work was premiered by Henry Wood at the Proms. Craft makes it sound lush and beautiful even though it is one of the tougher nuts. For utter delight Schonberg's arrangements of other people's works are well worth hearing: his orchestral version of Brahms's Piano Quartet No 1 is a gem of scintillating orchestration. Then he did the opposite thing by reducing Strauss Waltzes, Mahler's Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen [Songs of a Wayfarer] and Das Lied von der Erde to chamber works so that they stood better chances of being performed: these are very faithful to the spirit of the original works. He was a pupil of Mahler's.

My experience is that his more difficult music grows on you. Try a little now and again. Fortunately many recordings mix the works so a romantic piece comes with a tough cookie. Then there are his friends, Webern and Berg. Both have a romantic side and all of Webern's music is very short.

[Pabmusic]

...I am currently in love with Craft's recording of Schonberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra . This work was premiered by Henry Wood at the Proms. Craft makes it sound lush and beautiful even though it is one of the tougher nuts.

Adrian Boult was at the first performance and later recalled that he was astonished to feel a thump on his shoulder as soon as the work had finished. "...looking up [I] saw a radiant smile from a total stranger and heard 'Bless my soul, that's funny stuff, don't you think so? I must say I rather like it when they do it loud, like Strauss, but when it's quiet all the time like this, it seems a bit obscene, doesn't it?" The speaker was Sir Hubert Parry.

There's another, very slight, British music connexion, too. The first performance was in September 1913, with a second the following January. It is believed Gustav Holst attended at least one of these. He certainly owned a score of the work, and when he began The Planets (within a very few months) he called it just "Seven Pieces for Large Orchestra, opus 32 by Gustav von Holst". No mention of planets. That's what is on the autograph score. He changed the title before the first performance, but didn't alter the autograph, which still bears the very Shoenbergian original title.

[Panjandrum]

What a good idea for a thread! My favourite discoveries in the last 12 months:

Weber Der Freischutz
Mozart Sonata for 2 Pianos
Szymanowski Symphony No 2
Korngold Violin Concerto

[pmartel]

What a good idea for a thread! My favourite discoveries in the last 12 months:

Weber Der Freischutz
Mozart Sonata for 2 Pianos
Szymanowski Symphony No 2
Korngold Violin Concerto

I thought it was kinda fun as I was truly impressed with the Schoenberg. If you go to 'Performance to-day' on public radio, you'll find a performance of the Korngold Violin CTO

[umslopogaas]

Definitely try other works by Schonberg. I started with Gurrelieder and now have five recordings of the work. Pelleas and Melisande is beautiful too. There are works like Verklarte Nacht which make gentle introductions to the harder pieces. Naxos have issued some brilliant recodings conducted by the wonderful Robert Craft which provide an inexpensive way into this fascinating composer. I am currently in love with Craft's recording of Schonberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra . This work was premiered by Henry Wood at the Proms. Craft makes it sound lush and beautiful even though it is one of the tougher nuts. For utter delight Schonberg's arrangements of other people's works are well worth hearing: his orchestral version of Brahms's Clarinet Quartet is a gem of scintillating orchestration. Then he did the opposite thing by reducing Strauss Waltzes, Mahler's Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen [Songs of a Wayfarer] and Das Lied von der Erde to chamber works so that they stood better chances of being performed: these are very faithful to the spirit of the original works. He was a pupil of Mahler's.

My experience is that his more difficult music grows on you. Try a little now and again. Fortunately many recordings mix the works so a romantic piece comes with a tough cookie. Then there are his friends, Webern and Berg. Both have a romantic side and all of Webern's music is very short.

Schoenberg both produced and inspired some great quotes. Here are a few, from Chambers Music Quotations:

[on being asked why he no longer composed music like Verklarte Nacht] "I still do, but nobody notices."

"My music is not modern, it is merely badly played."

"A great deal of the liveliest music today, when not in fact at sea, is, more or less, in C." [Glen Gould]

[on being told his violin concerto required a player with six fingers] "Very well, I can wait."

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

whilst at work

???!!!

Great job you've got, pmarty!

I'd second all the "pointers" to Verklärte Nachte, the First String Quartet, and Pelleas & Melisande: once you've got "into" these works, it's easy to hear the First Chamber Symphony and the Second String Quartet. And then the Five Orchestral Pieces (and Chris' recommendation of the Craft recording is one I "second" with the greatest of enthusiasm!) And then ... and then ... and then ... (Arnie is one of the greatest composers whose work reflects the very best and very worst of human experience in the 20th Century, one of my "special favourites", in case I hadn't made that clear!)

And what a good "thread"! Three years ago I bought a boxed set of Schütz's Pasiontide Music on offer in the Radio Times. I'd known of the works since a teenager, but was totally unprepared for the utterly captivating Music: it completely held my attention.

Best Wishes.