A Tale of Two Mahlers

[cloughie]

It doesn't seem to concern some on here that certain forum members have drifted away and is it any wonder when a simple punctuation error is greeted by hoots of derision and the musical content of the post entirely ignored?

As a relatively new poster, I have just hooked on to what I thought was the tone of the board. Sorry but I thought irony was part of it. If it's supposed to be all serious, I'm off!

[jayne lee wilson]

I attended a live 9th at the RLPO last December 5th with Petrenko. A piece I've been familiar with a long time, it seemed as though the evening would be about something I loved once and looked back upon, wishing somehow to recover that youthful intensity...
and then we reached the trio of the Rondo-Burleske - I was shaken, devastated by what was happening, from the core of me, from the gut! My heart was beating so fast by the start of the Adagio I was apprehensive about the emotional journey ahead...

It's when the music falls back to near-silence; those finale episodes reduced to a thread of sound, high violins, a solo bassoon, a slender bass line, that draw me in so close, too close, to the cold intensity at its heart, the certainty of death. Perhaps having been close to my own sense of mortality - in hospital, too few years ago - made it harder and more meaningful to listen to - but then, why did I respond so much in my teens? Many do respond without such experiences - they sense the truth of it.

Quite right about its place in history, at a stylistic, cultural and emotional crossroads. Mahler DID get through it, as the 10th shows. Now, THERE"S a subject for discussion...

Okay, SO, with the recent hooha over the cell phone disruption at the NY Phil performance of Mahler's 9th, I decided to check it out.

I'll be honest, I love Mahler and discovered Mahler when I was in Grade 9 high school with Solti's performance of Mahler's 8th. THEN I discovered Mahler's 2nd Symphony with Leopold Stokowski conducting on RCA.

The second Mahler 9th is online with the Concertgebow of Amsterdam with Bernard Haitink.

Having heard bits of the NY Phil 9th, Alan Gilbert is quite a force with the NY Phil and pulls off a truly sublime ending DESPITE the innocuous cell phone and oddly didn't reallly detract and the engineers did a good editing job.

That said, the Concertgebow version has it's own qualities, but will listen more in detail on my night off.

The 9th symphony of Mahler, I think, is a statement about how the music at the time was changing. The final movement of this symphony is truly sublime and and really does, at least to me, make a statement

[Petrushka]

As a relatively new poster, I have just hooked on to what I thought was the tone of the board. Sorry but I thought irony was part of it. If it's supposed to be all serious, I'm off!

Cloughie, my post wasn't aimed specifically at you. The ones following do nothing to make a newish poster welcome or address the musical content of the original post. Yes, we do plenty of irony on here but my understanding of web etiquette is that it is bad form to point out minor spelling/punctuation errors made by another poster.

Anyway, I enjoy reading your posts so do please stay with us.

[kernelbogey]

[...]It's when the music falls back to near-silence; those finale episodes reduced to a thread of sound, high violins, a solo bassoon, a slender bass line, that draw me in so close, too close, too the cold intensity at its heart, the certainty of death. [...]

It seems that in those closing bars we confront disintegration - of tonality, of the individual, and, within a couple of years of its premiere, of Europe. And, with the benefit of hindsight, the coming of the Holocaust.

[amateur51]

Anyway, I enjoy reading your posts so do please stay with us.

Likewise, cloughie. Please stay & have your say

[Petrushka]

I attended a live 9th at the RLPO last December 5th with Petrenko. A piece I've been familiar with a long time, it seemed as though the evening would be about something I loved once and looked back upon, wishing somehow to recover that youthful intensity...
and then we reached the trio of the Rondo-Burleske - I was shaken, devastated by what was happening, from the core of me, from the gut! My heart was beating so fast by the start of the Adagio I was apprehensive about the emotional journey ahead...

It's when the music falls back to near-silence; those finale episodes reduced to a thread of sound, high violins, a solo bassoon, a slender bass line, that draw me in so close, too close, too the cold intensity at its heart, the certainty of death. Perhaps having been close to my own sense of mortality - in hospital, too few years ago - made it harder and more meaningful to listen to - but then, why did I respond so much in my teens? Many do respond without such experiences - they sense the truth of it.

Quite right about its place in history, at a stylistic, cultural and emotional crossroads. Mahler DID get through it, as the 10th shows. Now, THERE"S a subject for discussion...

Jayne, I've long been fascinated by the social and artistic upheaval that took place in pre-First World War Vienna and Mahler's 9th is a major part of it. It is astounding that both Hitler and Stalin were in Vienna at that time where the fate of the 20th century was being decided and into the world of the coffee-house and Sachertorte there came pieces like Schoenberg's 5 Orchestral Pieces and Mahler's 9th, the paintings of Egon Schiele and the literature of Arthur Schnitzler.

I've never managed to find a book that satisfactorily brings all these elements together to tell what is a fascinating story. Does anyone know of one?

[Richard Tarleton]

Anyway, I enjoy reading your posts so do please stay with us.

We all make mistakes (well some of us anyway ). The main thing is to learn from them. The apostrophe has magically disappeared, so let's move on , . I was forgiven very early on on the old MB for a stupid remark (for which I apologised), and I've not forgotten that.

Haitink's Mahler 9 holds a very special place for me - I heard him conduct it with the LPO in Cardiff, and the Vienna Phil in the Barbican, at a concert I think at least 2 MBers may have been at, well known Haitink buffs both, you know who you are.

[amateur51]

Jayne, I've long been fascinated by the social and artistic upheaval that took place in pre-First World War Vienna and Mahler's 9th is a major part of it. It is astounding that both Hitler and Stalin were in Vienna at that time where the fate of the 20th century was being decided and into the world of the coffee-house and Sachertorte there came pieces like Schoenberg's 5 Orchestral Pieces and Mahler's 9th, the paintings of Egon Schiele and the literature of Arthur Schnitzler.

I've never managed to find a book that satisfactorily brings all these elements together to tell what is a fascinating story. Does anyone know of one?

Do you recall a TV programme that George Steiner did aeons ago that covered this very ground, Petrushka? I found it fascinating and like you I'd welcome the chance to delve further

[Petrushka]

Do you recall a TV programme that George Steiner did aeons ago that covered this very ground, Petrushka? I found it fascinating and like you I'd welcome the chance to delve further

Was the Steiner programme on ITV of all places? Sometime around 1975? All a bit vague, sorry.

One book that does delve more than most into the Vienna of that time is Hitler's Vienna by Brigitte Hamann. While naturally centred on the future Fuhrer there is lots about the city of Vienna itself and the social, political and cultural turmoil of the time. I have searched high and low for a really good book that brings all the elements and cross-references together but without success. The art and music created in the city is a perfect mirror of what was going on and I think this is a subject that cries out for wider examination in English.

[pmartel]

I wonder if pmartel will bother to post again?

I love making the posts if they are relevant to what I'm thinking or reading at the time.

Part of the reason I posted about the Mahler 9th was that it was interesting there were two broadcasts of the work relatively close together,

On this side of the world, particularly in Canada, we rarely hear such great works live.

THANKFULLY, the internet has opened up a whole new world of listening possibilities.

On that topic, who would dream that one could listen to the Bayreuth Festival LIVE. This is now a summer tradition with me along with the Proms concerts.

Music, politics and art are VERY PASSIONATE with me, so more posts to follow

[Panjandrum]

=
Music, politics and art are VERY PASSIONATE with me, so more posts to follow

Good man. DLTBGYD!

[Mr Pee]

DLTBGYD!

?????

[vinteuil]

?????

DLTBGYD = " Don't Let The BBC Get You Down"

[Panjandrum]

DLTBGYD = " Don't Let The BBC Get You Down"

I suppose BBC could be taken as a substitute for the word I had in mind.

[scottycelt]

I love making the posts if they are relevant to what I'm thinking or reading at the time.

Part of the reason I posted about the Mahler 9th was that it was interesting there were two broadcasts of the work relatively close together,

On this side of the world, particularly in Canada, we rarely hear such great works live.

THANKFULLY, the internet has opened up a whole new world of listening possibilities.

On that topic, who would dream that one could listen to the Bayreuth Festival LIVE. This is now a summer tradition with me along with the Proms concerts.

Music, politics and art are VERY PASSIONATE with me, so more posts to follow

And quite right too ... and I also suspect you are perfectly capable of making up your own mind about a bit of gentle ribbing on this forum without the need for others (some not previously renowned for being particularly 'gentle') to do so on your behalf!