Relationship between the abstract world of mathematics and the material universe.

[Warwick]

What is the relationship between the abstract world of mathematics and the material universe?

Any thoughts?

[Lateralthinking1]

Crookedness.

[Sydney Grew]

What is the relationship between the abstract world of mathematics and the material universe?

Any thoughts?

They are both just systems of definitions - although in the case of the latter we prefer to hide the fact from ourselves. Language is all.

[scottycelt]

Ed Balls ... ?

[MrGongGong]

Language is all.

dashdk iuhdk kjh jk ftsiuiut

[teamsaint]

particles are comprised of energy, and sub atomic particles pop in and out of existence. any given moment they can exist in two places at once but react act identically if acted upon, thus giving rise to further questions.

So I guess it all adds up.
They don't teach you this stuff at school, because its far too scary, and won't help you to become a fully fledged tax paying slave.

[Quarky]

What is the relationship between the abstract world of mathematics and the material universe?

Any thoughts?

Human mind is key. It likes to build pictures of what is going on in the natural world. But, at least as far as I am concerned, the human mind does not work by solving mathematical equations - it makes pictures.

Mathematics is an aid to scientists in building the right picture, and to engineers in getting things to work. Before application of mathematics, the ancients viewed the world as held up by a gigantic turtle - I seem to recall. But then Galileo et al gave us a picture more in agreement with the established facts, that the world revolves about the sun.

But as far as most of us are concerned in our day to day concerns, the world might just as well be held up by a turtle.

[Lateralthinking1]

Someone sent me this slideshow a few days ago. Funny what you get given in e-mails -

http://www.slideshare.net/Diramar/the-beauty-of-mathematics-presentation

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

er does mathematics not exist in the material world ..... there are no immaterial minds eh?

[Belgrove]

Language is all.

And mathematics is nothing other than a language.

Eugene Wigner's accessible lecture on 'The unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in the natural sciences', e.g

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/MathDrama/reading/Wigner.html

ponders on why this abstract language can be applied with such success, insofar as it supplies a quantitatively predictive capacity of the physical world. The programme of applying mathematical descriptions to the animate world has continued apace since Wigner's lecture in 1960. Indeed new mathematics has been developed for this purpose.

The essay provoked responses that continue to this day without affecting Wigner's original observation.

[Vile Consort]

What is the relationship between the abstract world of mathematics and the material universe?

Any thoughts?

Measurement and structure.

[Budapest]

Warwick, if you want a simple answer to your question it's an obvious one: maths, science, blah, blah, blah, has no relation to 'the universe' whatsoever, because humans are very far from understanding, well, anything. The laws of physics that we've come up with on this little third rock from the sun (Newton's apple dropping on his head, and all that) enables us to get by at the moment in our primitive state. We are only just beginning to comprehend that Newtonian/classical physics is very, very flawd. It doesn't work at a quantum level, and the universe exists at the quantum level. Mathematics is a flawed language (go ask a mathematician to work out the square root of two). Humans want existance to be deterministic, whilst all evidence shows that it is not. I suppose it all comes down to a concept called 'infinity', and mathematicians have ingeneous ways of getting around that. The 'lazy eight'.

Humans are creative and have a modicum of intelligence, yet they know diddly squat about the universe they find themselves in.

[agingjb]

Measurement and structure.

As good a brief answer as is probably possible. It's very clear that the long answer would not be appropriate here, nevertheless I do think that the question is worthy of consideration - by people with education and experience in mathematics, physics, and (I would say) philosophy.

[Dave2002]

Mathematics is a flawed language (go ask a mathematician to work out the square root of two).

What do you mean by "work out"?

Let x be a square root of 2. x is one (or both) of the two solutions of x^2=2.

That's all there is to it!

[Bryn]

What do you mean by "work out"?

Let x be a square root of 2. x is one (or both) of the two solutions of x^2=2.

That's all there is to it!

A rational response to an irrational poser, (the question, not the questioner).