Gove shows the door to creationism as science

[Flosshilde]

If we assume the existence of a Creator, then (ducking the issue of who/what created the Creator), then why does the Creator have to be omniscient and/or omnipotent? It's perfectly possible to imagine creators who are unable to discern how their creations will behave, or to be able to alter their behaviour once initiated.

That's presumably why Satan was invented.

[John Skelton]

Regarding God - whoever, or whatever that might be, why does "he" have to have some of the properties ascribed to "him"? If we assume the existence of a Creator, then (ducking the issue of who/what created the Creator), then why does the Creator have to be omniscient and/or omnipotent? It's perfectly possible to imagine creators who are unable to discern how their creations will behave, or to be able to alter their behaviour once initiated.

It's also perfectly possible, given disease, natural disasters, the 'problem' of evil, to imagine a malign creator and to construct the kinds of dualism there are in Gnosticism and Manicheanism.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i don't know about god but the existence of humanity is a matter of contingent chance and accident and there is little comfort for humanity in the creation of the material universe .... if god is the answer the question is wrong innit?

[amateur51]

It's also perfectly possible, given disease, natural disasters, the 'problem' of evil, to imagine a malign creator and to construct the kinds of dualism there are in Gnosticism and Manicheanism.

Certainly ... but I wouldn't want to divert any funding from the Large Hadron Collider for that purpose

[Bryn]

Please ignore this, which I posted in error before it was completed. I've been trying to delete/edit it, but neither seems to work.

Perhaps the omnipotent one is obstructing your attempts.

[scottycelt]

... Going a bit off topic, but the problem with faith schools is not specific teaching of religion, but the way in which the belief system permeates everything - the crucifixes on classroom walls is a concrete manifestation of this. It also means that such schools have special dispensation to opt out of equal opportunities/anti discrimination legislation in employment, and can also refuse to teach certain topics.

In the obvious assumption that the classroom walls would not be left bare, what would you replace the crucifixes with, Floss ...?

'No Cuts' ... 'Tories Out!' ... 'Save My Mum's Pension' posters ?

By comparison, I think the crucifixes might suddenly appear a relatively less subjective and more inspiring symbol for our kids ...

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Barrington Moore's Social Origins of Dictatorship and Democracy was a foundational work of historical sociology that influenced a generation of social scientists and, decades later, continues to be widely read and taught. Here, Moore takes up the same tools of historical comparison to investigate why groups of people kill and torture each other. His answer is arrestingly simple: people persecute those whom they perceive as polluting due to their "impure" religious, political, or economic ideas.Moore's search begins with the Old Testament's restrictions on sexual behavior, idolatry, diet, and handling unclean objects. He argues that religious authorities seeking to distinguish the ancient Hebrews from competing groups invented, along with monotheism, the association of impure things with moral failure and the violation of God's will. This allowed people to view those holding competing ideas as contaminated and, more important, contaminating. Moore moves next to the French Wars of Religion, in which Protestants and Catholics massacred each other over the control of purity, and the French Revolution, which perfected terror and secularized purity. He then combs the major Asian religions and finds--to his surprise--that violent efforts to eradicate the "impure" were largely absent before substantial Western influence.Moore's provocative conclusion is that monotheism--with its monopoly on virtue and failure to provide supernatural scapegoats--is responsible for some of the most virulent forms of intolerance and is a major cause of human nastiness and suffering. Moore does not say that the monotheist tradition was the primary source of Nazism, Stalinism, Maoism, violent Hindu fundamentalism, or ethnic cleansing in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, but he does identify it as an indispensable cause because it justified, encouraged, and spread vindictive persecution throughout the world

Moral Purity & Persecution in History Babbington Moore

why i find both Atheism and Pragmatism morally preferable in the most succinct nutshell ...

[MrGongGong]

In the obvious assumption that the classroom walls would not be left bare, what would you replace the crucifixes with, Floss ...?

'No Cuts' ... 'Tories Out!' ... 'Save My Mum's Pension' posters ?

By comparison, I think the crucifixes might suddenly appear a relatively less subjective and more inspiring symbol for our kids ...

That's a comparison with something in YOUR head
which I think is what one would call a "Straw Man" !!!

OF course god "exists" ............ as a creation of the human mind
as do Rupert Bear and Homer Simpson

"Dad are the Wombles real ?
yes they are, they are real puppets" !

[Serial_Apologist]

Moral Purity & Persecution in History Babbington Moore

why i find both Atheism and Pragmatism morally preferable in the most succinct nutshell ...

The problems of an inhabitable planet face us all in evermore acute form RIGHT NOW - not in relation to any putative origin of all or far-distant future for the universe. Moore chimes with my own readings of the spiritual traditions of the Far East, and one of the reasons they seemed so popular to the questioning young during the 60s, and might have something to offer a greed-stimulated society which is obsessed with the very insecurities embedded in our way of doing things, and searching for ways in which conceptual models can be attuned to ecologically sustainable living.

S-A

[Flosshilde]

Perhaps the omnipotent one is obstructing your attempts.

That's no way to talk about Frenchie

[Flosshilde]

In the obvious assumption that the classroom walls would not be left bare, what would you replace the crucifixes with, Floss ...?

'No Cuts' ... 'Tories Out!' ... 'Save My Mum's Pension' posters ?

By comparison, I think the crucifixes might suddenly appear a relatively less subjective and more inspiring symbol for our kids ...

Well, anything would be better than the image of a man being tortured.

Perhaps pictures of the Large Hadron Collider?

No; I think examples of pupils' work would be appropriate.

[scottycelt]

That's a comparison with something in YOUR head
which I think is what one would call a "Straw Man" !!!

OF course god "exists" ............ as a creation of the human mind
as do Rupert Bear and Homer Simpson

"Dad are the Wombles real ?
yes they are, they are real puppets" !

Flossie's just contradicted you, Mr GG ... haven't atheists yet learned to sing from the same hymn sheet?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Well, anything would be better than the image of a man being tortured.

I think I agree with you on this.

[teamsaint]

I think I agree with you on this.

Anything?

A symbol and reminder of the terrible things that can be done in the name of fear, politics or religious intolerance is surely not the worst thing to have on the walls.
Not my choice of decoration........but neither are mission statements, or pictures of the school governors !!

[Bryn]

I think I agree with you on this.

If I recall correctly (it's a long, long time since I was roped in to helping out at the local Methodist church's Sunday school), the Methodists always use an empty cross, though mainly to show their belief in their Christ's ascension.