Gove shows the door to creationism as science

[amateur51]

Still, the idea that things 'just happened' from an original void requires a quite astounding degree of irrational gullibilty far surpassing that of the believer, imo.

One thing for sure, even atheists very obviously believe in miracles ...

I understand that you're thrilled to have come to that conclusion, scotty but what evidence do you have for its being true....?

You've had time to watch that Horizion programme that I directed you to yesterday morning in msg# 65, scotty - have you taken the opportunity to watch it?

[Bryn]

You're dead right there, Floss. A belief in God answers none of these questions.

However, I simply cannot understand how any person can consider something like the human brain ... yes, even Bernard Manning's ... and still believe that such an amazing organ 'emerged' after billions of years from 'stuff' that just happened to be around at the time, even though time never mind 'stuff' presumably didn't even exist in the first place.

Atheists accuse believers in a Supreme Power of 'believing in fairies' and undoubtedly there is a significant element of naivety and superstition in a lot of belief that passes for religion.

Still, the idea that things 'just happened' from an original void requires a quite astounding degree of irrational gullibilty far surpassing that of the believer, imo.

One thing for sure, even atheists very obviously believe in miracles ...

Yup, the belief that gods, or a God, 'just happened' from an original void does indeed require a quite astounding degree of irrational gullibility, far surpassing the rational concept of emergent properties of energy and matter during the aeons of existence of the universe we occupy a very, very small volume of.

[scottycelt]

I understand that you're thrilled to have come to that conclusion, scotty but what evidence do you have for its being true....?

You've had time to watch that Horizion programme that I directed you to yesterday morning in msg# 65, scotty - have you taken the opportunity to watch it?

Would I ever decline your recommendations, Amsy? Good entertaining stuff !

Let's hope the thrusting young scientists have better success in finding the 'elusive' Higgs particle than the Loch Ness Monster ...

We have been invited to check next (this?) year so I look forward to whenever it is, when the origins of the Universe will be exclusively revealed by the BBC.

Trouble is, any Higgs particle appears to come way after the BIG BANG which was kinda quickly glossed over as if it 'just happened' ... who needs religion for irrational fairy-tale miracles, eh?

[scottycelt]

Yup, the belief that gods, or a God, 'just happened' from an original void does indeed require a quite astounding degree of irrational gullibility, far surpassing the rational concept of emergent properties of energy and matter during the aeons of existence of the universe we occupy a very, very small area of.

Possibly, but a belief in a supernatural origin is surely a much more rational concept than the alternative theory that everything just emerged out-of-the-blue and from absolutely nothing whatsoever?

Where's the much-vaunted 'science' never mind rationality in that ... ?

[teamsaint]

stick with it SC.... certainty is very dangerous !!

Where's laterslthinking1, by the way?

[Bryn]

... belief in a supernatural origin is surely a much more rational concept than the alternative theory that everything just emerged out-of-the-blue and from absolutely nothing whatsoever? ...

I am not of the view that there was any blue out of which the emergence of energy, time and matter emerged. Colour would have come only with the emergence of light of a restricted range of frequencies. What is so rational about a belief in some supernatural causation? The science of the emergence of particles and their reciprocal anti-particles from vacuum conditions is pretty securely established in physics. I does not take a leap of faith to envisage some analogous situation re. the start of this universe.

[scottycelt]

I am not of the view that there was any blue out of which the emergence of energy, time and matter emerged. Colour would have come only with the emergence of light of a restricted range of frequencies. What is so rational about a belief in some supernatural causation? The science of the emergence of particles and their reciprocal anti-particles from vacuum conditions is pretty securely established in physics. I does not take a leap of faith to envisage some analogous situation re. the start of this universe.

Well I'm certainly no scientist but I do possess. I think, at least the semblance of a pea-brain and your suggestion that something that emerges all by itself out of a total vacuum does not really come 'out-of-the-blue' a bit confusing to say the least. Still, there we go ...

On another tack and to echo teamsaint ... where's lateral? ... there a few others long missing as well ... where's Freddie Campbell gone, for instance? .... . and our old friend Simon? ... the more the merrier!.

[MrGongGong]

. and our old friend Simon? ...:

Who he ?

[Serial_Apologist]

Who he ?

My guess? He got Simonized in the most recent Big Bang - i.e. polished off.

[Flosshilde]

where's Freddie Campbell gone, for instance? ....

Where indeed - I rather miss his odd posts.

our old friend Simon?

Obviously he's decided to put everyone on Ignore.

I wonder if his accolyte, Mr Pee, knows where he's gone?

[amateur51]

Would I ever decline your recommendations, Amsy? Good entertaining stuff !

Let's hope the thrusting young scientists have better success in finding the 'elusive' Higgs particle than the Loch Ness Monster ...

We have been invited to check next (this?) year so I look forward to whenever it is, when the origins of the Universe will be exclusively revealed by the BBC.

Trouble is, any Higgs particle appears to come way after the BIG BANG which was kinda quickly glossed over as if it 'just happened' ... who needs religion for irrational fairy-tale miracles, eh?

A classic response, scotty!

Just because science has not yet anywhere near explained everything, it has to be scoffed at and mocked.

Back to the dressing up box with you and carry on howling at the moon

[amateur51]

Well I'm certainly no scientist but I do possess. I think, at least the semblance of a pea-brain and your suggestion that something that emerges all by itself out of a total vacuum does not really come 'out-of-the-blue' a bit confusing to say the least. Still, there we go ...

Who says things happen 'out of the blue', scotty?

Here's a nice article with an explanatory video about eye evolution, a gradual process based on changing demands of the creatures' life and envirionment - the survival of the fittest

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html

No need for the bearded guy with limitless plasticine at all

[scottycelt]

A classic response, scotty!

Just because science has not yet anywhere near explained everything, it has to be scoffed at and mocked.

Back to the dressing up box with you and carry on howling at the moon

Scoffing and mocking? ... moi? ... nah, just responding in kind for a bit of light relief, Amsy!

[amateur51]

Scoffing and mocking? ... moi? ... nah, just responding in kind for a bit of light relief, Amsy!

You'll be in danger of contradicting EA's fine view of your alleged neutrality in these matters, scotty - see msg 76

[scottycelt]

Who says things happen 'out of the blue', scotty?

Here's a nice article with an explanatory video about eye evolution, a gradual process based on changing demands of the creatures' life and envirionment - the survival of the fittest

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html

No need for the bearded guy with limitless plasticine at all

Yeah, yeah, yeah, as the Beatles used to screech, that's perfectly rational and plausible ... no problem with that whatsoever ... but it's this initial Big Bang secular miracle thing ... oh yes, I think we can all relate to one mighty big bang when the universe came into being ... absolutely no problem with that whatsoever ... don't think even 'creationists' believe it all happened in a whimper, do they? ... that's the easy part ... it's the idea that the Big Bang somehow banged itself , all on its own, after cunningly and cleverly concocting it's own ingredients to create our infinite and magical universe that baffles some rationalists and scientists.

Big Bearded Guy, or wee secular fairies, that's definitely one heck of a miracle ...